Jockstocks Forums

Jockstocks Forums (http://forums.jockstocks.com//index.php)
-   Jockstocks Today (http://forums.jockstocks.com//forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   NBA MVP is? (http://forums.jockstocks.com//showthread.php?t=21168)

SiteWolf 12 Apr 2017 08:26 AM

NBA MVP is?
 
Whatdya think?

Triple double machine?
More wins?

rich76 12 Apr 2017 01:01 PM

Westbrook.

yon Beast 16 Apr 2017 07:29 AM

most valuable player....
what does that mean?
Lebron makes the most money and is invaluable to the team....but there are others.

Westbrook deserves it.

ProneEisenrott 17 Apr 2017 05:32 PM

If you had one player for one season--namely, this season--and your goal was to win a championship, would it be Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Curry, or Leonard?

I'd take LeBron, which indicates to me that he is the most "valuable" player. However, what Westbrook has accomplished this year (averaging a triple-double) is so incredible that it would be a crying shame not to give it to him.

LeBron could/should win every year, but just as in Jordan era when the same argument could easily have been made for Michael, it was always nice to find a reason to pass the MVP to others on occasion.

bballjer44 18 Apr 2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProneEisenrott (Post 93107)
If you had one player for one season--namely, this season--and your goal was to win a championship, would it be Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Curry, or Leonard?

I'd take LeBron, which indicates to me that he is the most "valuable" player. However, what Westbrook has accomplished this year (averaging a triple-double) is so incredible that it would be a crying shame not to give it to him.

LeBron could/should win every year, but just as in Jordan era when the same argument could easily have been made for Michael, it was always nice to find a reason to pass the MVP to others on occasion.

Ditto on James.
Westbrook will win. I give the slightest edge to Harden. Five less shots per game for Harden and only 2.5 less points. More assists, less rebounds. Houston more wins and 5.7 points per game differential vs .9 for OKC.
Triple doubles - headline stat. 20-10-10 not as good as 24-9-9. Quite frankly most basketball assists aren't worth the space in a box score.

SiteWolf 18 Apr 2017 06:41 PM

The definition of MVP is not supposed to be who is perceived as the best player in the league, it is supposed to be which player, because they're on a particular team, creates the most wins for their team.

In other words, how many wins would Cleveland, Houston, and Oklahoma City have if James, Harden, or Westbrook isn't on the team? Jordan didn't win as many MVPs not because they were giving someone else a chance but because he turned very good teams into great teams, but that didn't always mean the perception was they wouldn't still win a lot of games without him. IMO you could say the same for Cleveland and Houston- they'd still win a lot of games. Oklahoma City without Westbrook is a lottery team and nowhere near the playoffs.

bballjer44 18 Apr 2017 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiteWolf (Post 93118)
The definition of MVP is not supposed to be who is perceived as the best player in the league, it is supposed to be which player, because they're on a particular team, creates the most wins for their team.

In other words, how many wins would Cleveland, Houston, and Oklahoma City have if James, Harden, or Westbrook isn't on the team? Jordan didn't win as many MVPs not because they were giving someone else a chance but because he turned very good teams into great teams, but that didn't always mean the perception was they wouldn't still win a lot of games without him. IMO you could say the same for Cleveland and Houston- they'd still win a lot of games. Oklahoma City without Westbrook is a lottery team and nowhere near the playoffs.

I never bought that argument. You don't take away a teams best player and replace him with garbage and say look he made that team.
Makes more sense to switch the teams James and Westbrook are on (same with Jordan and the "flavor of the year") and then compare wins for the altered rosters.
MVP awards are too subjective. Growing up I read "The Sporting News" and they just picked players of the year.

rich76 19 Apr 2017 09:25 PM

Here's my view:

Cleveland roster:


20 Kay Felder PG
8 Channing Frye
2 Kyrie Irving
23 LeBron James
24 Richard Jefferson
30 Dahntay Jones
1 James Jones
26 Kyle Korver
0 Kevin Love F
4 Iman Shumpert
5 J.R. Smith
40 Edy Tavares
13 Tristan Thompson
31 Deron Williams PG
3 Derrick Williams F

Houston roster:

3 Ryan Anderson
1 Trevor Ariza
2 Patrick Beverley
8 Bobby Brown
15 Clint Capela
7 Sam Dekker
10 Eric Gordon
13 James Harden
5 Montrezl Harrell
42 Nene
21 Chinanu Onuaku
17 Isaiah Taylor
12 Lou Williams
14 Troy Williams
30 Kyle Wiltjer

Oklahoma roster:

8 Álex Abrines
12 Steven Adams
6 Semaj Christon
30 Norris Cole
4 Nick Collison
22 Taj Gibson
9 Jerami Grant
34 Josh Huestis
11 Enes Kanter
25 Doug McDermott
5 Victor Oladipo
21 Andre Roberson
3 Domantas Sabonis
15 Kyle Singler
0 Russell Westbrook

Take the 3 in question out of their line-up and which team wins fewer games in comparison to what they've won with them.


ProneEisenrott 19 Apr 2017 10:39 PM

I bet the Thunder or Rockets with LeBron would win more games than the Cavs with either Harden or Westbrook. But we can't know that for sure...only speculation.

What we can reasonably know is that LeBron is the best player, Westbrook has the best numbers, and Harden has improved his team the most compared to last season.

The MVP award, however, is still subjective, just as is the definition of an "All Star." And, quite frankly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

bballjer44 19 Apr 2017 11:40 PM

R. WestbrookPG - OKC

51PTS
17/43FG
15/18FT

J. HardenSG - HOU

35PTS
7/17FG
18/20FT

In my book Harden more impressive tonight.

bballjer44 19 Apr 2017 11:56 PM

If removing a player from a team and then looking at how many games they win I vote for Jimmy Butler. Is there another Bull, maybe Lopez, you would try to get for your team?
MVP discussions are stupid because it's impossible to know the results of one player leaving a team. Was Durant or Westbrook the MVP of OKC when both were there?

rich76 15 Aug 2017 06:49 AM

FYI.........Westbrook won!

bballjer44 15 Aug 2017 02:45 PM

Rightly so. Unlike this year, when Durant was with OKC he sucked at crunch time in the playoffs.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2007 - 2011 Jockstocks

Jockstocks Forums Database Error
Database Error Database error
The Jockstocks Forums database has encountered a problem.

Please try the following:
  • Load the page again by clicking the Refresh button in your web browser.
  • Open the forums.jockstocks.com home page, then try to open another page.
  • Click the Back button to try another link.
The forums.jockstocks.com forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists.
 
We apologise for any inconvenience.