Obama surges in polls; McCain concedes Michigan

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Obama Extends Lead Over McCain, Polls Show

(RTTNews) - Democratic hopeful Barack Obama is extending his lead over rival John McCain, a series of polls released this week revealed. The Illinois senator is enjoying a comfortable lead in early October, just over a month before Americans head to the voting booths.

A poll released Thursday showed Obama leading McCain among likely voters in Florida, one of the key "swing states" in the upcoming election. The poll also showed that controversial vice-presidential pick Sarah Palin was still a benefit to the McCain ticket in Florida.

The Suffolk University/WSVN-7 News Miami poll showed that Obama had a lead of 4 percentage points over McCain, 46% to 42%, among likely voters.

David Paleologos, director of the Political Research Center at Suffolk University in Boston, attributed Obama's lead to the recent economic turmoil, saying, "There is an inverse relationship between the financial health and well being of the United States and Barack Obama's political campaign...the lower the economy goes, the higher Obama's poll numbers."

The same poll found 39% of potential voters in Florida blamed the Republicans for the current economic turmoil compared to 19% blaming Democrats. That could spell trouble for McCain, as 43% of Floridians polled listed the economy as their top issue during this presidential campaign, far above the second-highest rated issue of moral values, which only 10% listed as their top issue.


McCain gives up on Michigan in a major retreat

WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain conceded battleground Michigan to the Democrats on Thursday, GOP officials said, a major retreat as he struggles to regain his footing in a campaign increasingly dominated by economic issues.

These officials said McCain was pulling staff and advertising out of the economically distressed Midwestern state. He also canceled a visit slated for next week. Michigan, with 17 electoral votes, voted for Democrat John Kerry in 2004, but Republicans had poured money into an effort to try to place it in their column this year.

The decision marked the first time either McCain or his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, has tacitly conceded a traditional battleground state in a race for the White House with little more than a month remaining.

In a campaign now unfolding across more than a dozen states, the decision allows McCain's resources to be sent to Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida and other more competitive states. But it also means Obama can shift money to other states like Virginia, Colorado and North Carolina where he is trying to eat into traditional Republican territory.

By pulling out of vote-rich Michigan, McCain conceded a large part of the electoral map in the heart of the industrial Midwest.

The move underscored McCain's troubles on the economy, which he has acknowledged is not his strongest subject. It also underscored his struggle to beat an opponent who has the money to compete in many states President Bush won four years ago. Polls show Obama has pulled ahead or tied McCain in many of those states.

[hork]

but unlike most vp debates tonight's might actually have an effect on things. if somehow palin is able to upstage biden she might be able to narrow that lead. i somehow strongly doubt that's a possibility (she's not exactly what one would call sharp or knowledgable about current issues domestic or foreign) but stranger things have happened.

biden's handlers just need to make sure he keeps his cool and doesn't presume to instruct her on stage (ala george the first and ferraro)

[hork]

based on national polls, were the election today obama would wipe up the map with mccain but a lot can happen in the next four weeks.

[Bill Shaw]

Originally Posted by hork

based on national polls, were the election today obama would wipe up the map with mccain but a lot can happen in the next four weeks.

A) the Media had Gore having won after polls closed. How did that go?

B) who's nephew put together the site you linked to?

[rich76]

Originally Posted by hork

but unlike most vp debates tonight's might actually have an effect on things. if somehow palin is able to upstage biden she might be able to narrow that lead. i somehow strongly doubt that's a possibility (she's not exactly what one would call sharp or knowledgable about current issues domestic or foreign) but stranger things have happened.

biden's handlers just need to make sure he keeps his cool and doesn't presume to instruct her on stage (ala george the first and ferraro)

and the Dems got the exact moderator they wanted.....a black woman that wrote a book about Obama. Lets see if that comes into play at all.

[rich76]

Originally Posted by hork

but unlike most vp debates tonight's might actually have an effect on things. if somehow palin is able to upstage biden she might be able to narrow that lead. i somehow strongly doubt that's a possibility (she's not exactly what one would call sharp or knowledgable about current issues domestic or foreign) but stranger things have happened.

biden's handlers just need to make sure he keeps his cool and doesn't presume to instruct her on stage (ala george the first and ferraro)

sounds like she's holding her own to me.

[hork]

Originally Posted by rich76

sounds like she's holding her own to me.

until one starts fact checking. biden's already caught her in two false statements (lies probably not but definitely misleading).

i'll give her credit though, she's a master at answering everything but what she's asked.

[Bill Shaw]

Originally Posted by hork

i'll give her credit though, she's a master at answering everything but what she's asked.

You can definitely see why Biden got 1% support from Iowa Democrats in the caucus.

He shows every bit of the three and a half decades as a politician.

That's the problem.

Originally Posted by hork

until one starts fact checking.

Yeah, maybe Joe can get some Bosnitians on it.

[rich76]

Originally Posted by hork

until one starts fact checking. biden's already caught her in two false statements (lies probably not but definitely misleading).

i'll give her credit though, she's a master at answering everything but what she's asked.

and when the "fact checking" begins...Biden will be found to have some false statements of his own....funny you don't mention that

[hork]

Originally Posted by rich76

and when the "fact checking" begins...Biden will be found to have some false statements of his own....funny you don't mention that

to be sure. in fact three of his errors should jump right off the page especially the one regarding the deregulation that led to the current financial woes (the same deregulation he has a record of voting for)

but there can be little doubt as to who the winner (if there really ever is one) of this debate was. she gave it her best and did have some good points here and there but in the end she failed to really impress and i think the main reason is her insisting on attacking folks based on false or mistaken (readers choice) "facts" ala obama's voting to increase taxes 90 times or so. and her repeated accusations of his refusal to support the troops repeatedly levied by her. both only serve to show just how unprepared she is at least with regard to knowing what's going on in her nation.

[Bill Shaw]

Originally Posted by hork

her insisting on attacking folks based on false or mistaken (readers choice) "facts" ala obama's voting to increase taxes 90 times or so. and her repeated accusations of his refusal to support the troops repeatedly levied by her. both only serve to show just how unprepared she is at least with regard to knowing what's going on in her nation.

If Obama is going to pay for national health care, how exactly would that tab be covered? Mind you, paying for it- and actually getting it are 2 completely different things. How many of us have paid into HMOs, only to be funding the bureaucracy that denies the care?

That "I support the troops, not the war" crap only goes so far, too.

The current spin is that while the "surge" may have been effective, we'll never really know if withdrawal would have been more effective. I thank God we will also never know how disastrous Obama's cut-and-run ideology would have turned out, either.

[SayOw]

Both lied pretty good...

Link Here

Some facts adrift in veep debate
By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer

Republican Sarah Palin criticized a version of a Barack Obama health care plan that doesn't exist and Democrat Joe Biden clung to a misleading charge about Republicans and big oil when the two clashed in the vice presidential debate Thursday.

Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

___

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.

___

PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.

___

BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."

THE FACTS: That's not surprising — the money is meant to pay for health insurance. The Obama campaign tried to capitalize on the candidates' health care exchange by issuing an ad Friday contending that the Republicans can't explain "the McCain health tax."

___

PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.

___

BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."

THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.

___

PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

___

BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."

THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

___

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

___

PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."

BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others.

___

PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

___

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Pulp can MOVE, baby!



If you don't get it, here's the reference.

[P562045]

Well Palin lied seven times and Biden only four times. So I guess I should feel better about Biden because he lied fewer times?

Something just tells me that the Associated Press probably selectively did not mention a few more lies that Biden gave last night.

[Bill Shaw]

Originally Posted by Bill Shaw

If Obama is going to pay for national health care, how exactly would that tab be covered? Mind you, paying for it- and actually getting it are 2 completely different things. How many of us have paid into HMOs, only to be funding the bureaucracy that denies the care?

I'll post the direct quote, once it's available.

On this week with George Stephanopoulos, Ed Rendell (former DNC Chair, current Obama talking head), in an attempt to diminish McCain's health care plan said (paraphrased), "a $5000 tax credit won't get you health care. I know in Pennsylvania (where he is Governor) you need at least $12,000 to get a decent level of health care".

A) As the chief executive of the state, any chance you may want to do something about that?

B) If Obama is, where, exactly, would the $12,000 plus per head come from?

C) Bet the HOUSE no the plus part. That $12k would be the number before Washington opened it's (our) vault. How long before that bill would be $30k per person? For nothing, mind you.

Unfrickin' believable