Adios Mike

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by AzElvis

He never broke away from his possee.

But Troy, that's a choice....and one of many bad ones....he made.

[StormJr]

troy...its not worth my time picking apart your statement. But Dog fighting is not a sport. I dont care if you are white, black, orange, yellow, or blue...its not a sport.

Also...being brought up wrong is not an excuse. Maybe when you are in high school it can be used. BUT HE IS AN ADULT....CAPABLE OF MAKING HIS OWN DECISIONS. He is (was) a professional football player making millions. He should know better. I would feel no sympathy for him if he went to jail for 10 years or more. What he did was despicable.

[AzElvis]

I agree. I dont get why people huddle to watch a snake take down a mouse. I do like watching a mongoose owning a snake just rooting for the underdog. But we could go on and on about the acts humans do I am not in favor of. Only in this world can you tell me it is ok to shoot Bambi yet these hell hounds get the cocker spaniel treatment? The humane society is really putting an effort to show right and wrong. They are gonna put these dogs down. So why are they any better? We all have had friends we needed to part with too long before we did. Vick will and SHOULD be punished. Don't end his life over this. Make him pay then move on. He should be allowed to play again. Now Leonard Little killed a woman driving under the influence. He got 6 mos. Then later drove this way again. Didnt learn his lesson. Vick will probably get more time than Little. He is being made an example of IMO.

I have long thought there was a group of predjudice Americans who go after high-profile blacks. I mean if I named the top 10 blacks in the last 20 years only Tiger has seemed to escape the scrutiny. Michael Jordan, gambling scandal. Michael Jackson, kid scandal. Tyson, Rape charges. O.J., threesome scandal. Vick, dog scandal. It may be a scandal against Black Mikes LOL.
Of course there was the sexual harrasment scandal with Congress. Much earlier you had Jackie Robinson and Hank Aaron who faced several death threats. Dr. King murdered. Hey what do I know. A lot of coincidences.

[TroyB911]

That line about shooting bambi was classic.

While I frown on animal cruelty and consider it abominable, I still have to recognize that there is definitely a double/triple standard involved in these cases.

When I grew up, my nextdoor neighbor used to drown chipmunks in trash cans when they ate his vegetable garden. My grandfather used rat poison to solve his rodent problem in the basement. None of these deaths were peaceful or humane, and they did involve four-legged animals that can feel pain. But no one was really concerned.

If someone drowns or poisons a dog, then suddenly it is a horrible crime. Yes, I definitely agree that it is wrong and should be illegal, but if these laws do not send mixed messages then I don't know what does.

[StockTrader]

Originally Posted by joehuelsman

When I grew up, my nextdoor neighbor used to drown chipmunks in trash cans when they ate his vegetable garden.

Actually, this is one of the most humane ways, believe it or not.

Nick

[AzElvis]

And Joe that is all I was saying and I appreciate it. I in noway condone his behavior but let's not make him out to be the devil. So many cases including the ones you and I brought up to not see mixed messages. I think it is fun for some to have that MOB mentality. If they have no Osama, O.J., or Vick to hate on they will find someone. Maybe me. I guess it is fun to hate for some.

[AzElvis]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Actually, this is one of the most humane ways, believe it or not.

Nick

He could have poisoned his nuts. LOL

[ZeroCool]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE9z305qvq8

Graphic violence warning.

[ZeroCool]

Originally Posted by joehuelsman

That line about shooting bambi was classic.

While I frown on animal cruelty and consider it abominable, I still have to recognize that there is definitely a double/triple standard involved in these cases.

When I grew up, my nextdoor neighbor used to drown chipmunks in trash cans when they ate his vegetable garden. My grandfather used rat poison to solve his rodent problem in the basement. None of these deaths were peaceful or humane, and they did involve four-legged animals that can feel pain. But no one was really concerned.

If someone drowns or poisons a dog, then suddenly it is a horrible crime. Yes, I definitely agree that it is wrong and should be illegal, but if these laws do not send mixed messages then I don't know what does.

The big thing everybody is missing is special cruelty involved in all aspects of this. These dogs are basically starved, beaten, given no medical attention during the course of thier lives. They are also given steroids to enhance their ferocity. They fight and fight until they are then drowned, shot, hung or someother inhumane death. The only reason this way is done is because it would cost money to put the dog to sleep.

These dogs were not given a choice in the matter. They did not choose to become a boxer. Boxers get medical attention after a fight. Not vinegar poured on thier wounds so they callus up faster to fight again sooner. So there is no reason to compare it to boxing. This basically slavery for dogs. I cannot understand that this discussion has gone on this long based on the idea boxing and dog fighting are similar.

Hunting is another comparison I see when trying to defend dog fighting or at the very least downplay its severity. Hunting is the oldest sport around. Its man vs beast. Bambi or hogs or birds can escape and survive. Hunting isnt about tying an animal down and wrapping a plastic bag around its head until it suffocates. It is about skill. I do not condone this either but I do see understand the training and technique involved. They do have laws regarding hunting and most hunters abide by them I have to assume. I'm sure their are some nuts out there but atleast the laws are in effect to help with this. Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states. This because it just cruel and inhumane.

Troy, I know you have stated many times you are against animal cruelty, I just think you don't appreciate how disgusting a "Sport" this really is and should be treated as such. It is not a snake eating a mouse.

Joe I only quoted you because it sort of summed up everything Troy has been saying. It was easier to use yours then doing lots of multi quotes.

[AzElvis]

I gotta be honest that video sickened me and made me want to change things up a bit. I think Vick needs 2 years now. If they had those cruel training methods then that is beyond my comprehension of the hell those animals endured. I guess words on paper doesnt do justice. Seeing the process and effects is much more convincing. Now like I said if you are gonna slap one slap all. What about Roy Jones Jr. Brags about ---- fighting and the boxing media almost celebrates the style he portrays and the fact it coicides with his hobby with game ---- fighting.

Now I dont know if you all have heard but Vick is turning snitch and naming names in an attempt to stay out of jail. hmmm.

Earl Simmons a.k.a. "DMX" had his home in Cave Creek AZ raided and many abused dogs were found. Coincidence? Dunno. I guess he is saving his a$$.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dmx+home+raided

[rich76]

so it is ok for us to "be hatin' on him" now?........or will you let us know when that is?

[rich76]

Originally Posted by AzElvis

I agree. I dont get why people huddle to watch a snake take down a mouse. I do like watching a mongoose owning a snake just rooting for the underdog. But we could go on and on about the acts humans do I am not in favor of. Only in this world can you tell me it is ok to shoot Bambi yet these hell hounds get the cocker spaniel treatment? The humane society is really putting an effort to show right and wrong. They are gonna put these dogs down. So why are they any better? We all have had friends we needed to part with too long before we did. Vick will and SHOULD be punished. Don't end his life over this. Make him pay then move on. He should be allowed to play again. Now Leonard Little killed a woman driving under the influence. He got 6 mos. Then later drove this way again. Didnt learn his lesson. Vick will probably get more time than Little. He is being made an example of IMO.

I have long thought there was a group of predjudice Americans who go after high-profile blacks. I mean if I named the top 10 blacks in the last 20 years only Tiger has seemed to escape the scrutiny. Michael Jordan, gambling scandal. Michael Jackson, kid scandal. Tyson, Rape charges. O.J., threesome scandal. Vick, dog scandal. It may be a scandal against Black Mikes LOL.
Of course there was the sexual harrasment scandal with Congress. Much earlier you had Jackie Robinson and Hank Aaron who faced several death threats. Dr. King murdered. Hey what do I know. A lot of coincidences.

First of all......OJ Simpson? 3some scandal?
comparing a snake eating a mouse or a mongoose going after a snake to fighting and then killing dogs that don't perform or are too emaciated to fight again is possibly THE single most ludicrous thing you have posted here.

"killing Bambi".....you're surely not saying that deerhunters are all killing the same mythical cartoon animal are you?

comparing hunters to this jackass punk coward that can't own up to his shortcomings is almost as ludicrous. We ARE a forgiving society.....sometimes to the point that bewilders the shiznit out of me. BUT....we are usually forgiving to those that show SOME semblance of REMOURSE!!
Using the old "well I grew up poor and in the slums" excuse is just not going to fly....my parents grew up poor and in the slums of NYC...they didn't become punks or hoodlums...and neither did I. I've coached kids in many diff sports that grew up in poor black neighborhoods...kids that didn't have 2 nickels to rub together....whose mother was a crack -----....whoose father was nowhere to be found......and a significant majority of them grew up to be young adults that their familes and society are very proud of. For every young black thug you show me I am sure that there are thousands that are NOT. I'm tired of this bullshiznit of calling the race card when someone's "idol" gets his --- in the wringer. Your last paragraph is even more unbelieveable then the rest..........

the top 10 blacks of the last 20 years

?
Are they THE top 10 blacks or YOUR top 10 blacks? You are absolutely clueless how you offend people.....were I black and read the above quote I would be incredulously offended.

This article pretty much sums it up for me.........

Vick did what cowards do
By Jeff Schultz | Friday, August 24, 2007, 06:03 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution



Jeff Schultz A coward to the end.

He won’t directly say he killed dogs. He will admit to heading a group of degenerates when dogs were killed. Does somebody award points for semantics? “Ookie” tells “T” or “Q” or “P-Funk” to “Drown the dog,” but he keeps his hands in his pockets. Is this the Vito Corleone defense?

A coward to the end.

He won’t admit to gambling on dogfights. But he’ll admit to funding an illegal business enterprise that gambles. Well, that should appease NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. Because I’m sure if “Bad Newz Kennels” ever accumulated significant gambling debts, a bookie would pressure “T” or “Q” or “P Funk” — not the NFL player with the $130 million contract who gave the money to “T” or “Q” or “P-Funk.”

How does this happen? How can somebody we admired for his courage on the field turn into such an invertebrate off it?

He runs in games. Did he have to run in the real world? Is it that difficult to admit guilt and say, “It’s my fault. Everything.”

We are, by nature, forgiving. We embrace the comeback. We want people to overcome obstacles, shed their baggage, become whole again.

This we shouldn’t forgive. First, we need to see remorse. Michael Vick hides behind attorneys like an offensive line. If only he had hid that well as a Falcons quarterback, he never would’ve been sacked.

He doesn’t care about the truth. He cares about exact wording in legal PDFs.

He doesn’t care about accepting responsibility. He cares about limiting blame.

If he feels anything, he doesn’t show it. It’s only obvious that he’s sorry he got caught. That doesn’t count. That’s pathetic. He’s pathetic. Vick doesn’t need a 12-step program for healing. He needs a conscience.

When will he realize that he did something wrong? When he’s lying in a cell, wide awake at 2 a.m.? When he’s scrubbing a floor or washing dishes for 12 cents an hour? Maybe while he’s under house arrest, walking around with an ankle bracelet?

Try avoiding the rush with that, big guy. There’s your new Michael Vick Experience.

This is not how people with character defects should begin rehabilitation. This is not how to repair an image or damaged career aspirations.

Come clean on everything. Express sorrow, contrition — then we’ll talk.

Vick did what cowards do. He not only hid behind some legalese, he agreed to cooperate with the government in turning in others. Maybe you view that as being a team player. But there’s another view: There goes the street cred.

Page 5 of the plea agreement reads: “The defendant agrees to cooperate fully and truthfully with the United States, and provide all information known to the defendant regarding any criminal activity as requested by the government.” It states this includes testimony at grand juries and trials. Vick also must submit to a polygraph test at the whim of the government.

Nobody agrees to such mandates unless they’re backed to the edge of a cliff, with the cavalry approaching. So why not just come completely clean? At least he would look like he cared.

I can’t imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars Vick will have paid attorneys when this is over. I hope the verbiage was worth it.

We knew he struggled to read defenses. Turns out he can’t read an offense, either. The story broke in April in Surry County, Va. Vick’s reaction: “I’m never at the house. I left the house with my family members and my cousin. They just haven’t been doing the right thing. … It’s unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it.”

He thought it would go away, of course, like a disappearing water bottle incident. He goofed. Had he settled things with Virginia authorities, maybe the “United States vs. Michael Vick, a/k/a ‘Ookie’ ” never happens.

Then officials dug up the yard at 1915 Moonlight Road. They found dog corpses. Vick still thought, “I can’t be tied to this.” The lying continued. Vick’s fan base screamed racism or warnings about the Duke case revisited.

Then it fell apart. “T” and “Q” and “P-Funk” rolled on him. Suddenly, Vick was the last man standing. The last coward standing.

Maybe one day he’ll step to a microphone and express remorse. But we’re past the point of trust. Repentance needs to be wired to a polygraph.

[AzElvis]

It's my opinion you lunatic. Ease off the coffee.

[P562045]

The sentencing date for Michael Vick is December 10.

[rich76]