The ever popular split conversation

[SiteWolf]

OK, as we all know stock splits have become a pain....our game has been going now for over 10 years, so stocks are going to split...the only way that does NOT happen is if the formulas kick out lower dividends and/or stocks are allowed to reach higher levels before splitting- neither idea the most pleasant IMO.

We've talked until at least I am blue in the face about possibilities that allow all to feel good about the setup. More active players want to be able to day trade 100k or full splits while casual players would IMO get killed if we were to do that...and by casual I don't mean inactive..we have ppl that log in every day that just don't trade that much and certainly wouldn't suddenly day trade dozens of stocks every day. They like to talk sports, read discussions about the game, buy IPOs, and maybe do some daytrading on football Sundays or pitchers or goalies.

Especially thinking golf and NASCAR right now, the thought occurs- what if we just sold down all holdings (in those 2 sports anyway) to 10k shares, eliminating splits, yet leaving share prices right where they are. Yes, that much more unused cash, but making every stock available. (FYI I've had the thought several times to do this after each season anyway) I'd also thought about selling down to 10k, but still allowing 50k trading, but all that does is cut holdings in half and still leave the casual player losing big ground to the active trader.

Any decisions now doesn't have to involve other sports, but with the 2013 PGA season starting the week of New Years' and NASCAR only a few weeks after that, those 2 sports in particular could use a change of SOME sort.

[rich76]

unsplit both sectors.

[carjam12]

I agree unspilt them both

[Being]

Unsplit both sectors.

or all sectors. 50K daytrading bites. Either full or none imho.

[SiteWolf]

I decided to just move this thread here for all...it's been in our consortium forum.

I know some people love splits, but splits also cause issues from a game standpoint. Our game has been going on, now, for 10 years...and especially in the golf and NASCAR sectors, people in those sports can have long careers.

At the moment, the thought would be to simply sell all holdings of golf and NASCAR stocks down to 10,000 shares, thereby eliminating them as stock splits while not changing their share prices (tho I haven't looked at who would be close to splitting already). UNsplitting stocks and retaining value wouldn't resolve anything.

If, indeed, we do this, I'd just do golf for now...in case another alternative suddenly comes up before the NASCAR season.

I'm putting this out there for discussion. If you have other views or other ideas, let's hear 'em. For example, our attempt to somewhat alleviate this before was the institution of 50k trading- a stock splits, it becomes a stock you can either hold 100k of or trade 50k. I chose 50k over 100k so active daytraders didn't gain too large an advantage over full split holders. I'd thought of just allowing 75k trading vs 100k holding but I don't know that doesn't worsen, rather than improve the situation.

This comes up, in case you're not sure, because in those 2 sectors especially......there are nearly as many active stocks that have split as there are that haven't.

[SiteWolf]

I'm a lil surprised there's been no new response on this, given what we're proposing to do....but I also know a lot of you may not have read this yet. With what I have in front of me with family/work obligations, it likely wasn't going to happen for this first tournament anyway, but I'd still like to hear thoughts.

[ProneEisenrott]

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

I'm a lil surprised there's been no new response on this, given what we're proposing to do....but I also know a lot of you may not have read this yet. With what I have in front of me with family/work obligations, it likely wasn't going to happen for this first tournament anyway, but I'd still like to hear thoughts.

This is the first I've seen of this discussion.

I'm in favor of unsplitting every stock in PGA, keep the share price, allow to split normally during the season, and then unsplit again after the season.

This could become the norm for all sports.

[SiteWolf]

I've thought about figuring something like that, actually. We're at 10,000/share for splits mostly to limit the number of splits...but most take multiple seasons to split the first time. Resetting at least the number of shares each offseason would actually allow us to lower the split price to still make splits a part of the game....while also likely eliminating any need for amnesties. It would also allow people to drop stocks that are underperforming rather than keeping them just because they had split in a previous season...knowing they could buy them back once projections/performance makes them viable again.

Along with that, I've also had wheels spinning with some ideas on megastocks that would allow people to at least make some use of some excess cash.

[rich76]

what are we going to do with this tournament. We've had no preseason amnesty and many of us would either like one or unsplit them for this tournament.

[SiteWolf]

I've had virtually zero free time the last couple weeks and not quite enough time to assimilate the idea or see enough discussion on it to feel comfortable pulling the trigger.

DAMN...I need to open the Golf only ports, too!

[anthonyovitt]

I really dont understand (and never will) the point of selling off anything. Leaving big portfolios with more unused $. Even after they split to 1M, I think they still shouldn't be sold off. I get upset anytime my 1M guys get sold off. I just dont understand your intent on this, and I dont like the idea at all. Investing in splits is what i like about this game. I will probably not play at all if this change is made. The whole point of this game to me is to watch a portfolio grow and its a good measuring stick of how a player has performed throughout the years. This idea would destroy the point of this game to me. It would make your main portfolio turn almost like a monthly, quarterly, yearly, which reset....i thought that is what they were i n place for?

[SiteWolf]

I never wanted to have to make decisions to sell off splits at all...but the game has been going for 10 years now, and there's only so many ways to set it up so both the active and the casual player enjoy playing.

If too many stocks split, the market gets stagnant because so many are holding, not trading, all those stocks

To counteract that, we allowed people to daytrade splits...but at 50k, not the full 100k share level with the idea that the active traders would love trading 100k shares, but the casual trader would get killed if that happened.

But active traders don't trade 50k all that much feeling it's too big a difference. I could increase that to, say, 75k but I don't know that it really resolves anything.

If shares over 100k weren't getting sold off, people would be holding 10mil or even 100mil shares of some stocks...anyone happening to miss a split or accidentally sell would REALLY be getting killed at that point.

Discussions like this have gone on for years here- how can we still include the 'thrill' of stock splits while also still keeping the game even?

The game is built for YOU guys to enjoy...the game Nick and I play from the 'other side' is completely different. If you've got ideas on how to handle stock splits differently than we have, believe me I'm all ears. I don't sell off shares over 100k 'cause I need the extra work!

[rich76]

I want to play the game....not sit here and watch my port grow.

[anthonyovitt]

Why can't the individual decide weather to keep splits? I feel like the past couple years of being an active member are going to be wasted if this is what you decide on. Why does the market being stagnant have to do with anything if every morning everyone gets a divi? I think the 75k thing sounds like an ok idea, but to sell everyones splits takes most of the fun out of the game. I don't understand the point of hooking someone up who is a casual trader (which no matter how you put it IS a nice way of saying that they're not as active) who is not paying attention to who is about to split. Active traders who are on here daily should reap the benefits of logging in, paying attention to what is going on, and buying guys who are about to split. Maybe if there were no amnesty periods at all, then the market wouldnt be a stagnant. Is that the only reason why you are thinking about doing this? I'm sorry but I think its a bad bad bad idea.

[SiteWolf]

Understand that some of our more active USERS are not necessarily active TRADERS. You might be surprised how many log in daily, put in their Pick'ems, read some post some on the boards, but don't do that much trading. THOSE are the people I'm referring to as casual...NOT the people who don't log in for weeks or even months at a time..tho we have some that are fairly active during parts of the year, fairly INactive other parts.

The point of the game is to build your portfolio, not accumulate splits. I know that can be at least part of the fun and believe me, I'm not trying to take any of that away.

Anthony, you may not know this since you didn't know me prior to Jockstocks, but I was exactly the type of casual trader I'm referring to back at our predecessor. I was active in competitions some months, barely made a trade other months. But I logged in virtually every day for years. So I DO understand from the user side.

Stagnant does matter to those trading more actively, especially those playing monthly ports, etc. They have enough decisions to make in who they buy each night without having to make decisions also based on whether a stock will 'moo' or not because it's a stock split. Plus, from the user side AND admin side, an active market is a more healthy market.

Like I said...if a better idea comes along, I'm all for it. My job here is to keep the game as enjoyable as possible for as many as possible, so I'm certainly not looking to do things that detract from that. I have listened sometimes even too much to users over the years when it comes to game changes, etc...and I'm not stopping now.

Maybe the temporary 'fix' while we continue discussion is to allow 100k trading on golf stocks while we come up with an answer...at the risk of annoying those who don't trade actively as they're used to simply holding stock splits and therefore not having reason to sell on a bad day.