Obama

[-mmm-]

Originally Posted by hork

actually i have to say i was impressed with both candidates overall. each had their strong points for example McCain on abortion (while I might argue his position at least he was upfront and definitive on it) and his retelling of his stay in the POW camp was moving and impossible to criticize.

Obama's answer to class levels was clearly more thought out and definitely showed a larger concern to the plight of the american middle class than McCain's and his answer on who he wouldn't have nominated for the court was clearly more thought out and less partisan than his counterpart's (although what was he thinking accusing anyone of being too inexperienced given the way the GOP has been trying to paint him?)

Sadly, both also failed to impress me with more than a couple of their responses.

McCain's response on the middle class was disrespectful and all but admitted he could care less about them (well at least when compared to the wealthy they are clearly second rate in his opinion) and his answer to the court nominations was clear partisanship with little to no thought involved.

On the other hand, Obama totally blew the abortion question. Regardless of one's position on it, you really need to have more to say than "answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade" And his response to the most gut wrenching decision he's ever made was so bland it made me cringe.

all in all i'd have to agree and call it a tie. but it did show some separation between the candidates on important issues and hopefully will help to shape some interesting and revealing debates next month.

That's why I quoted McCain's answer about income. It was such an incomprehensible trainwreck of an answer that, much like Pink Floyd's The Wall movie, I dont think I'll ever fully understand it even when totally inebriated. But I guess it's hard to keep track where middle income ends and upper income begins when you married into money, spent a good chunk of the 80s in the Bahamas at the expense of a failed S&L, and currently own 7 or 10 homes (depending which source you use).

[P562045]

Come on Mondale and McGovern both start with the letter m.

And McGovern lost to the president when people really started to not trust the government. The country had gone decades thinking that the new deal was the way to go.

Nixon was a little paranoid right about people learning his secrets right?

So sorry McBama would be much more appropriate than Mobama but Mobama is much more catchy.

I wonder why I always confuse McGovern and Mondale?

Well they did both lose by over 500 electoral votes in a presidential campaign but that is not the reason why?

[hork]

Originally Posted by P562045

And McGovern lost to the president when people really started to not trust the government. The country had gone decades thinking that the new deal was the way to go.


Well they did both lose by over 500 electoral votes in a presidential campaign but that is not the reason why?

actually McGovern got creamed because Bob Novak wrote a story in which he claimed a top democratic senator (Thomas Eagleton) told him that McGovern was all about amnesty, abortion, and acid.

Of course at the time of the story the source was unnamed and Novak only revealed his "source" after Eagleton died (in other words when he could not longer defend himself).

Granted he was against the war in Nam (but so too were most Americans at that point) but that wasn't what killed him, it was this story by Novak and the conservative values of the 50's and 60's (remember hippies weren't likely to vote all that much) that did him in.


Mondale on the other hand was killed primarily because of his association with Carter and Ferraro. Along with his support of the ERA and the fact that we didn't know how crooked Reagan was at that time or how devastating in reality reaganomics truly was.

[P562045]

Can someone please explain what amnesty means with regards to the 1972 presidential race?

I only ask because I have this image of amnesty in my head from the debate in the congress last year of what amnesty means in terms of today and I don't even really know the context of the word amnesty in the early 70's?

[P562045]

Originally Posted by -mmm-

But I guess it's hard to keep track where middle income ends and upper income begins when you married into money, spent a good chunk of the 80s in the Bahamas at the expense of a failed S&L, and currently own 7 or 10 homes (depending which source you use).

Do members of congress hang out in the Bahamas usually? The only reason I ask is because McCain became a member of congress in 1983. I would not consider three out of ten years a "good chunk" of time.

I don't even really remember what year the Savings and Loan crisis came to light. And McCain would really be foolish to be associated with a Savings and Loan while he was a member of congress. Well I guess McCain can play dumb yet again but I remember back then and the media portrayed the savings and loan crisis in much the same way they do the housing crisis now.

Both are a big deal and for the same reason. They dragged the economy down and the republicans started both of these situations because of their alliance with big business. I am sure there is a huge connection between "k street" and wall street. That is just one example I can think of right now.

And don't think for a second that the democrats want nothing to do with big business but they do have a relationship with them that is very different. Big business to democrats is a great means to generate revenue at all levels of government actually.

[P562045]

So McGovern wanted amnesty for people that lived in other countries that did not want to go to the Vietnam.

This is just a little weird to me but it was just a sign of the times back then.

And just a few months after the election the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for abortions. Just remember there are almost no federal laws that deal with this sensitive issue at all. Almost all states have at least a few laws about abortion and even a few states say it is illegal and I can think of at least one other state that has a very restrictive laws about abortion. Not going to say that was a good or bad decision I will almost always lets others decide for themselves about that particular issue. I also know full well it is a very personal issue for many people for many different reasons as well.

One other thing to just mention about McGovern. The state he was living in did not even give him their electoral votes. I don't think to many presidential candidates have that kind of distinction. McGovern only got Massachusetts and the District of Columbia I believe. Massachusetts when I think about it even know sounds like the kind of state that would just love McGovern.

Another thing to mention is Bob Novack. Yes this is the same person that was on Crossfire and other shows as well on CNN. Then he outed Valerie Plame. But way back in the early 70's he was causing trouble for the democrats as well.

It is going to be so good when the democrats only have themselves to blame for so many things. It is going to be so hard for me to do but I will try.

I know I know I am getting just a little ahead of myself.

[rich76]

A little ditty I came across regarding Mr Obama...............

Whether you are a Democrat or a Republican, you might enjoy reading this...
'Walking Eagle' Senator BARACK OBAMA was invited to address a major

gathering of the American Indian Nation two weeks ago in upstate New York



HE spoke for almost an hour on HIS future plans for increasing every Native

American's present standard of living, should HE one day become the

President. HE referred to his career as a Senator, how he had signed 'YES'

for every Indian issue that came to his desk for approval. Although the

Senator was vague on the details of his plan, he seemed most enthusiastic

about his future ideas for helping his 'red sisters and brothers'.



At the conclusion of his speech, the Tribes presented the Senator with a

plaque inscribed with his new Indian name - Walking Eagle. The proud Senator

then departed in his motorcade, waving to the crowds.



A news reporter later inquired to the group of chiefs of how they came to

select the new name given to the Senator. They explained that Walking Eagle

is the name given to a bird so full of shiznit it can no longer fly.

[ocho cinco]

Rich don't believe anything in an email... its all false, and wrong.... trust me.... thats what someone told me around here.

[rich76]

I actually thought it was a joke Nick....and found it funny as hell.

[ocho cinco]

Originally Posted by rich76

I actually thought it was a joke Nick....and found it funny as hell.

Just making sure Rich... Didn't want you to believe something that isn't true.

[P562045]

Obama can not even decide if his vice president should present change or experience?

August 21, 2008

Source: Obama was 'hung up' on change vs. experience

Posted: 06:40 PM ET

From CNN Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger

(CNN) — The VP choice was a difficult one for Obama, a source close to the Illinois senator tells CNN's Gloria Borger.

Specifically Obama was "very hung up on the experience versus change,” the source said, and how his message of change may conflict with a longtime Washington insider.

The source doesn't know who Obama ultimately chose, but confirms Sens. Joe Biden and Evan Bayh, along with Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine are all in the running.


I just hope that Obama picks the best looking one that sounds really good as well.

And what I have just described is not what Obama's pick is like the media will just fawn and act like that person no matter who that person is actually is just like the description I just gave.

Blurb Here

When the heck are we going to find out who it is going to be anyway? The media has been obsessing over this for a few days at least.

Not that the media much cares at least when compared to Obama's pick I think that McCain will be announcing his pick next Friday on his 72nd birthday.

[P562045]

Why didn't anyone say who Obama's vice president pick was going to be early, very early this morning?

Maybe no one got a text message or e-mail.

Now of course the question becomes who is Senator Joe Biden?

So sorry Joe "He's not ready" Biden. I am trying to remember which senator Senator Biden was talking about?

Is anyone really fully prepared to be president?

There is no other job in the world like it.

Well anyway. I am going to give two different versions of who Joe Biden is. The main stream media version and then find another source. I am sure the media will leave certain things out just by accident I am sure.

Senator Biden has been in the senate since the first week in January in 1973.

Sounds just like the person that is very ready and willing to lead us to very real change. Now what kind of change is a little hard to define even eighteen months later when Obama first told the people he was running for president in February of 2007 in the very same spot where he is going to be today with Senator Biden at the old state capitol in Springfield Illinois. This is also where Lincoln gave his "house divided" speech when running for the U.S. senate seat in Illinois in 1858. I also tend to think that Lincoln also announced he was running for president there as well but I am a little fuzzy about that particular point right now though.

Why would this article say something like this? Don't they know Obama has visited Afghanistan, Iraq, other parts of the middle east; and Paris, London, and of course Berlin as well?

"Among those on the short list, Biden brought the most experience in defense or foreign policy — areas in which Obama fares relatively poorly in the polls compared with Republican Sen. John McCain."

The main stream media version.

Story Here

And what better way to know Joe Biden than his senate voting record.

Maybe a little latter on I will give how he voted on several key issues since October of 2001.

Well I already know that Biden voted for the Patriot Act of 2001 because there was only U.S. senator to vote no and that was Senator Feingold. I don't know how Senator Feingold always gets overlooked for being a presidential candidate. He also with McCain-Feingold got all of the money out of politics right? Just watch early next week and the week after that the political conventions to find out if that is the case or not.

Biden's voting record back to early 1991

And last but not least I wonder if Biden was lied to by the president as well when it comes to getting us into that mess in Iraq?

Yes Biden was lied to by the president. Along with 76 other members of the senate; and for good measure 296 members of the house as well. Nothing like 76% of the senate agreeing with the president and about 68% of the house also agreeing with the president as well. And just remember this is where the next president will be getting the legislation from in order for him to sign something and make it a law. And has the congress really changed that much when it comes to the previous congress to this one?

House Vote
Senate Vote

I wonder how Obama feels about these two "key" votes by his vice presidential choice?

[-mmm-]

I just heard on CNN that the text message was sent out around 3am eastern time this morning. Why does that sound familiar?

You mention Feingold, he did mull a Presidential run this time around, but decided against it.

[P562045]

I was going to mention that the message went out around 3 A.M. but then I thought it may be automated and Obama was probably just sleeping at 3 A.M. like he should be.

This has got to a very tiring process no matter how much energy a person has. And remember Obama has been doing this since February of last year.

Feingold also said nay to authorize the use of the U.S. armed forces against Iraq.

Talk about the perfect candidate for the democrat base. Feingold is it.

Maybe Feingold knew he would have to run against his co sponsor of the campaign finance reform bill McCain that takes almost all of the money out of politics.

Now that is a little bit of a misnomer because it would really be hard to do. What would Washington do without revenue coming into Washington when trying to do its job?

Now I would think with a common name like campaign finance reform that a bill would actually provide some reform but these reforms just changed where the money was coming from but the money was not taken out of politics though. The number 527 just pops into my head right now for some reason.

Just another example of Washington trying some reform but the end result is just about the same as it was before.

[P562045]

This is going to be tough for Obama to live up to.

Headline: " Obama promises speech with purpose, not mere rhetoric"

I think I will quote every rhetorical little didy in his speech on Friday sometime.

So what percentage of Obama's speech Thursday night will be pure unadulterated rhetoric?

Maybe he will actually finally explain his plan for America going foward.

Story Here

Speaking of historical speeches with lots of rhetoric in them this Thursday we have the anniversary of one of the most famous ones of them all. A person will just have to wait until Thursday though.

I will be watching for this because I doubt that many politicians would even recognize rhetoric when they see it or for that matter speak it.