Occupy Wall Street

[-mmm-]

Why are people protesting? Maybe they dont want their tax money being put at risk. Link

Synopsis: BofA is moving a derivatives unit into the FDIC program with the blessing of the Fed. However the FDIC protested because it could put the entire program at risk. Too big to fail debate once over again.

And on a far lighter note, Bill Watterson was prescient: http://twitpic.com/72a1z7

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by -mmm-

And on a far lighter note, Bill Watterson was prescient: http://twitpic.com/72a1z7

+1 Hilarious!

[-mmm-]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Sooooo, to steal a line I heard the other day [thanks Cain], why are they protesting in Manhattan instead of Washington?

Nick

Im not part of the movement, but I think that they have the idea that you protest in front of the masters and not the puppets (though there is an #occupyDC...hell there's an #occupy even for most any major town/city, not that your conservative media will ever tell you any of that other than people who practice their first amendment rights are dangerous people).

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by -mmm-

that you protest in front of the masters and not the puppets ...

Bingo.

Politicians (from both sides) have proven to be the working class' worst enemy.

[yon Beast]

prescience (ˈprɛsɪəns) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]
—n
knowledge of events before they take place; foreknowledge
[C14: from Latin praescīre to foreknow, from prae before + scīre to know]

'prescient
—adj

[-mmm-]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Oh no, I've heard all about the occupy-a-space-waste-lots-of-money-to-prove-nothing protests. However, I still do not understand what they hope to accomplish. If somebody did something illegal, let's insure justice is served. But that will happen regardless of how much time and money they waste.

However, I am of the -- obviously -- stark opinion it was in fact too much government intervention in the 'free market' that has caused this 'recession' in which we find ourselves. And I challenge you to prove me incorrect -- it's scary how almost everything comes back to over-regulation!

Nick

You dont understand, but you can already dismiss it as proving nothing

Hmm, as I recall many conservatives some years back were saying we need to keep Guantanamo open because we cant insure justice will always prevail. Its funny that "just cant prevail" in regards to the authoritarian policies of our modern police state in regards to the war of terror, but now I see conservatives arguing for justice in regards to economics, and somehow thinking it will prevail when the system, from Senators to judges, have been bought and paid for by the people who would stand trial.

I disagree, Im not going to strongly argue because I think its relatively pointless convincing an obvious zealot. My argument though is that the whole economic mess came about with deregulation though: there are various laws that were culled back but I would point to the repeal of Glass-Stegall as one of the starting points to the mess we are in today.

[SayOw]

And I am absolutely a zealot for deregulation. = seed for fraud

What has happened, in a nutshell, that during the years of the housing boon, using hindsight, was largely propped up by shoddy financial practices due to a largely deregulated market. Mortgage crisis ensues and the government, in its typical knee jerk fashion, now over regulated that market, essentially killing it. So what was once a huge internal economic engine for this country has now been all but shutdown.

Of course that is an over simplistic view, but I think an appropriate reply for those trumpeting complete deregulation.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

I don't think I ever said do away with regulation, and if I did I retract that statement right now. What I am suggesting though is that government have a very fine and limited interaction with the free market. There is a big difference between what I just stated and what you thought I meant.

For example, immediately close down and sell the assets of Freddie and Fannie.

Nick

I was not trying to infer that you wanted no regulation...

I was simply stating that the current "mess" that we are in was primarily due to deregulation that took place 10, 20 years ago because proponents declared that the free market would be in the best interest of everyone...but fraud was easy and companies were literally created on the basis of being able to defraud people because of the lack of regulation.

And mind you, I am a Libertarian...I am for the complete removal of government in almost every facet of American society, but I do realize that if there is no one there to protect people from people, then all you will get is carnage and the people that wreak the havoc are usually the ones that are no longer to be found, but rather, retired and sleeping on their piles of money, somewhere not in America.

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by SayOw

the people that wreak the havoc are usually the ones that are no longer to be found, but rather, retired and sleeping on their piles of money, somewhere not in America.

....pretty much what we have, yes?
or did I misread your comment

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

....pretty much what we have, yes?
or did I misread your comment

Correct...

I was certainly, intentionally alluding to our current situation...

[SayOw]

Occupy Oakland looks like it is getting a little dicey...of course it's mostly due to the police trying to break up the protest...

[SayOw]

...between 1979 and 2007, the share of after-tax income going to each of the bottom four income quintiles has dropped. The only quintile that has increased its share is the top 20 percent. And the top 1 percent -- those economic elites targeted by the Occupy Wall street movement, which claims to represent the other 99 percent -- has more than doubled its share.

That top 1 percent saw its income skyrocket by 275 percent.

Story here.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

More telling would be not how much more they've made but how much more they've paid in taxes.

Nick

Not sure why that would be more telling...more telling how? Just for class envy?

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Just to clarify, you're saying one should feel guilty because they increase their income at a faster rate than somebody else?

It's more telling because [typically] more income in means more taxes out -- last time I checked, that was good for covering our bloated public sector jobs.

Nick

Point A: I am not saying anyone should feel guilty or not if someone's income increases more then someone else. My original post regarding the widening gap of income disparity in this country was just an observation and I made no comment or allusion to suggest anything other than it being an observation.

Point B: Also better tax lawyers to get out of paying taxes as well. A debate in the unfair tax code in America will likely lead into a futile off topic discussion, but if you want to continue...proceed. But, imo, the crux of your perspective is based solidly in the class warfare argument.

[SayOw]

Occupy Atlanta was also greeted by police early this morning.