The War on Christmas

[ldzppln]

Why do public schools in Saginaw, Michigan hate Jesus?

'Christ' Taken Out Of Christmas Festival

SAGINAW, Mich. -- Tightening budgets have forced Mt. Pleasant to take Christ out of their Christmas.

The traditional Dickens Christmas Festival has been re-named the Dickens Holiday Festival so the city can advertise in local schools.

In order to get more bang for their buck out of a thinning advertisement budget, the organization wants to put fliers in schools. For that to happen, the word “Christmas” had to be removed.

Downtown Development Coordinator Michelle Sponseller said many people are unhappy with the change.

“We changed the name this year for the schools because we wanted to advertise in the school brochures and the schools have a list of words you can’t use like Santa, Christmas and Nativity. So did a brochure for the schools and we took those words out.”

Sponseller said they made a brochure for the public with word Christmas is still in it.

Downtown Development board member Kriss Roethleisberger said, “The spirit of the event has not changed. We have the live Nativity, the lighted Christmas parade, the community Christmas sing. It was simply that on one piece of marketing material we had the use the word ‘holiday.’”

The entire event is put on by volunteers and starts Friday, Nov. 30 and runs through the weekend.

The organization maintains the spirit of the festival won’t change, simply the name.

[rich76]

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish.And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are:Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crèche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are,but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

[hork]

see here's my whole issue with the christmas/winter holiday debate.

if you don't celebrate christmas for whatever reason (religious, etc) then why would you be offended by those who do? it's no less stupid than folks who berate things like passover, kwanza, ramadahn, sabbats, etc.

the only time i see an issue with any of this religious nonsense (meant as to the debate itself not the respective faith) is when some form of government (local, state, federal, whatever) attempts to impose one faith over another as we saw in the case of the 10 commandments monument or the case in ohio(?) where the city allowed a nativity scene during the christmas holiday but refused to display islamic icons during ramadahn. in either of those cases it's a clear violation of the establishment clause.

but when it comes to businesses (e.g., walmart) then who the hell (other than coporate owners) has a right to tell anyone what they can or can't say? damn sure not the government. and when it comes to school plays, town parades, etc. again, if all other faiths are afforded equal opportunity, then it should be a matter of personal choice when to partake and when to abstain, and no one should be forced either way.

i guess i'll never understand why some feel that their way is the only way and anyone who dares question it be damned. seems to me that opinion is the antithesis of what this country is all about be it centered around religion, "morality", or favorite food groups.

[hork]

most of that was truly written by Stein except for the final part beginning with Funny....

also, the comments attributed to Anne Lotz actually were not about Katrina. They were made long before Katrina hit and reference the attacks of 9-11.

Not to criticize just to correct some misinformation that has a way of spreading itself around the web usually as a result of a good intentioned mass emailer. although the sentiment is for the most part correct even if a bit misleading in its details.

[BlackDiamond]

Hey,

It's been a "Winter Break" here for years.

[P562045]

Originally Posted by BlackDiamond

Hey,

It's been a "Winter Break" here for years.

Just out of pure curiosity about how many years?

The city hall in the municipality where I live has to go through the extra cost just to have a nativity scene.

They city was sued and they had to have a bunch of different religions represented or no nativity scene so said the judge.

So now my city hall has a nativity scene, a Mornora, a symbol of some sort for Kwanzaa, and some other symbol for I don't even know what for because there is no winter holiday for Muslims. Oh wait there is Ramadan but that is over about mid October and as well all know Winter starts just a little before Christmas.

So let's see city hall has to pay for three extra things right on its front lawn that people can't miss when they go into the city hall and then city also had to pay the lawyers to try to fight the lawsuit in the first place.

What does all of this equal $$$ wasted IMO of course.

I just shake my head every time I have to go past my city hall starting right around Thanksgiving.

But don't worry I am o.k. with the African American Santa at the mall I can walk to though. We have had one for a few years now and I doubt the very few kids that do see that Santa don't really care. There are very few kids because the mall that is real close to me even on a good day barely has more customers than employees working there but I guess that is a separate issue for another time.

[hork]

Originally Posted by P562045

Just out of pure curiosity about how many years?

The city hall in the municipality where I live has to go through the extra cost just to have a nativity scene.

They city was sued and they had to have a bunch of different religions represented or no nativity scene so said the judge.

So now my city hall has a nativity scene, a Mornora, a symbol of some sort for Kwanzaa, and some other symbol for I don't even know what for because there is no winter holiday for Muslims. Oh wait there is Ramadan but that is over about mid October and as well all know Winter starts just a little before Christmas.

So let's see city hall has to pay for three extra things right on its front lawn that people can't miss when they go into the city hall and then city also had to pay the lawyers to try to fight the lawsuit in the first place.

What does all of this equal $$$ wasted IMO of course.

I just shake my head every time I have to go past my city hall starting right around Thanksgiving.

But don't worry I am o.k. with the African American Santa at the mall I can walk to though. We have had one for a few years now and I doubt the very few kids that do see that Santa don't really care. There are very few kids because the mall that is real close to me even on a good day barely has more customers than employees working there but I guess that is a separate issue for another time.

so what is your suggestion? get rid of the nativity set?

[P562045]

Originally Posted by hork

so what is your suggestion? get rid of the nativity set?

No keep the nativity scene and get rid of all of the other religious symbols which is directly against what the judge decided in the case; and by the way there was just a nativity scene on the city hall property when I first moved here.

I wonder if it was the separation of church and state crowd that brought the suit against the city in the first place I honestly can't remember if that is the case or not right now.

[hork]

Originally Posted by P562045

No keep the nativity scene and get rid of all of the other religious symbols

speaks volumes to the real issue and far better than i could.

[P562045]

As a person can see the judge compromised in the case the nativity scene can stay as long as there was a much broader religious views on the property of city hall as well.

[hork]

Originally Posted by P562045

As a person can see the judge compromised in the case the nativity scene can stay as long as there was a much broader religious views on the property of city hall as well.

and the problem with that is?

[P562045]

Let me get this straight I want a nativity scene on city hall property which is clearly a religious symbol but I do not want other religious symbols on the exact same city hall property.

Quit making me think and now I see the point it just takes me a while sometimes as people well know.

[BlackDiamond]

Originally Posted by P562045

Just out of pure curiosity about how many years?

Hey,

My son is in middle school and it has been that way since he has been in school. Do not remember previous to that when my daughter was in school.

She started college the same year he started school.

[P562045]

That sounds like they have been calling it winter break for years. Kind of curious that is what the local university around here calls it that to.



I doubt that I would want to even know the elementary school that I can easily walk to calls it.

The P.C. crowd has me so screwed me up I say Merry Christmas to my family only and anyone else gets Happy Holidays.

And no I was not dropped on my head as a child.

[spoc22]

One question I've asked and have yet to be answered is simply this:
Why can we celebrate the birthday of REVEREND Martin Luther King, Jr (a religious figure) but can't celebrate the birth of Jesus ( a religious figure)?