Where are we going?

[rich76]

Since the Pledge of Allegiance

And

The Lord's Prayer

Are not allowed in most

Public schools anymore

Because the word 'God' is mentioned.....

A girl in Arizonawrote the attached

NEW School prayer:

Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene..

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all..

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong..

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles..

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

[oldstewball]

Amen and God help us all.

[Thunderbirds]

I agree where are we headed. What ever happened to the "JUDEO CHRISTIAN" beliefs that this country was founded on?

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by Thunderbirds

I agree where are we headed. What ever happened to the "JUDEO CHRISTIAN" beliefs that this country was founded on?

only non-judeo/Christian beliefs are deemed to remain PC

more than a few signers of the Declaration have to be spinning in their graves....

[hork]

the simple solution is for folks to keep their faiths to themselves, don't worry about pushing them on others, don't worry about whether someone holds differing views, and it's a non-issue. sadly few seem capable of that.

as far as I'm concerned pray where and to who you want when you'd like. it's only a problem when you force and/or expect others to participate or to deem your belief system as any more valid than their own.

and for the record, many of the founding fathers were not what traditional christians would deem christians. but that's another thread i suppose.

as for spinning in their graves, let's remember this nation wasn't founded on any specific religious philosophy, but rather many of the original 13 (especially Maryland, Massachusetts, Pennsylvanian, and Rhode Island) were found on the sole basis of freedom to worship as one sees fit. inherent in that is the freedom from worship. as soon as folks remember that we can start to get back to the framers' intent.

[StockTrader]

Was the freedom of religion not more specific to being able to worship God [Christian] however they wanted? They just didn't like the Catholic church; or am I off base?

Nick

[hork]

a bit off base (but understandable as many of the protestants would have you believe that) in fact, both the plymouth and massachusettes bay colonies were founded to escape what the colonists saw as an overly permissive anglican church, catholicism had nothing to do with it. Maryland was founded as a refuge for catholics as the protestants were persecuting them in Europe. and the quakers were the epitome of religious tolerance. rhode island was founded to escape the religious persecution of massachusettes.

again though the simple answer is to teach people their faith is no more valid than any other in the grand scheme. sure it's the "truth" as the individual sees it and so be it that's fine. if folks could worry about their own instead of forcing their agendas/beliefs on others and condemning those who don't explicitly subscribe then this would be a non-issue. but as has always been the problem with faith, there is no evidence to bear out truth (hence the term faith) and as such no one can prove which is right (so somehow they choose to condemn all others as false and vilify them). faith is a personal matter and as such should be kept to oneself. if we could do that simple thing then discussions like this would be moot.

[StockTrader]

Food for thought, if somebody takes the time out of their life to talk to you about God, they probably care about you. The only reason Christianity is spread is because of the believe that there is only one path to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.

If somebody cares about you enough to talk to you about being saved, that should say something to you. And hence, that is the reason people talk about things like religion.

Nick

[rich76]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Food for thought, if somebody takes the time out of their life to talk to you about God, they probably care about you. The only reason Christianity is spread is because of the believe that there is only one path to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.

If somebody cares about you enough to talk to you about being saved, that should say something to you. And hence, that is the reason people talk about things like religion.

Nick

AMEN....guess once again, I should never have posted here....I should have kept this to myself.

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by hork

faith is a personal matter and as such should be kept to oneself. if we could do that simple thing then discussions like this would be moot.

There is no logic in keeping one's faith to oneself, as part of having faith is witnessing to others.

There is, however, logic to being tolerant of the faith (or lack thereof) of others and not pushing one's faith on someone else.

The problem is, some believe that simply practicing their faith within view of others is somehow pushing their faith on them. My quietly bowing my head in prayer is my own business, yet I have received negative comments in the past for doing it in public.

I stand by my grave spinning comment- the very religion most signers came here to enjoy more freedom in is the one more people seem to try and nitpick about.

[hork]

i agree should one chooses to bow their head in silent prayer, or genuflect and face east, or present offerings to a tree they should be allowed to do so just as long as they don't force me to comply or insist i practice as they do. i also question the validity of this statment

"the very religion most signers came here to enjoy more freedom in is the one more people seem to try and nitpick about."

i can see how it might feel that way to someone who practices this faith. but i'd bet those who choose to practice islam and are labeled murders and accused of practicing a faith of violence and hate might take issue with it. i'd also guess those who choose to not worship and who are constantly chastised as godless, and blamed for the deterioration of our society routinely might also take issue with your statement. i understand how you feel that way as a member of said faith but like all other things it's a matter of perspective and inherently relative.


Nick, as for proselytizing, that's fine too as long as the person doing so accepts it when someone chooses to question, present alternative ideas, or simply say no thank you. unfortunately many of all faiths are unable to do this. they feel the need to prove their mythology is the one truth and will tell you how all others are false. truth is they have no evidence to substantiate their claims. my own faith is based on stories and myths thousands of years old with no surviving witnesses and solely a book to codify these stories. while i accept them as true, i have no way to prove it, and more importantly i have no way to prove anyone else's mythos is false (other than my own beliefs). there is a reason they call it faith, and not fact.

the mere fact there is even any room for debate in this thread substantiates and illustrates my point far better and more eloquently than i can.

[hork]

rich you are of course welcome to post what you'd like. i did not call you out nor did i question your faith, in fact i didn't even remark on the poem itself (which was well written and obviously impassioned).

i do however take offense that you would insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that it is improper for someone to hold a differing opinion. or that doing so suggests issue with what you have to say.

[rich76]

guess once again, I should never have posted here....I should have kept this to myself

Originally Posted by hork

rich you are of course welcome to post what you'd like. i did not call you out nor did i question your faith, in fact i didn't even remark on the poem itself (which was well written and obviously impassioned).

i do however take offense that you would insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that it is improper for someone to hold a differing opinion. or that doing so suggests issue with what you have to say.

that's quite different from this

faith is a personal matter and as such should be kept to oneself. if we could do that simple thing then discussions like this would be moot

and how, on earth do you get this

i do however take offense that you would insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that it is improper for someone to hold a differing opinion. or that doing so suggests issue with what you have to say

from this......

guess once again, I should never have posted here....I should have kept this to myself

[hork]

how is it different? seriously i'm confused i've said and believe faith is a personal issue and shouldn't be forced on others. how does that differ than anything at all i wrote in my response to you (which actually didn't even mention faith and only alluded to the original post?)

not trying to be confrontational, both because its hardly worth fighting over and i'm trying to maintain mature decorum on these boards as a result of a promise i made to orren. but i'm failing to see how you could have possibly read anything personal into any of my replies (well prior to the one directed specifically to you that is) but am willing to try.

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by hork

i can see how it might feel that way to someone who practices this faith. but i'd bet those who choose to practice islam and are labeled murders and accused of practicing a faith of violence and hate might take issue with it. i'd also guess those who choose to not worship and who are constantly chastised as godless, and blamed for the deterioration of our society routinely might also take issue with your statement.

ah, but I wasn't suggesting Christians were alone in being chastised and questioned.....what I was suggesting was that it is sadly ironic that it continues to happen given that's what our forefathers came here to get away from...

tho yes, I'd agree, far too many think Muslim = terrorist, which obviously is totally wrong. I don't, however, see people not choosing to worship chastised or blamed for any deterioration...but then, I live in South Dakota....I barely see people period.