Somes it up pretty well

[hork]

at least better than I could put it.

[P562045]

So what is exactly are the democrats plans for the country lets just say until January of 2013?

[P562045]

"Fix" Health Care
"Fix" the Environment
"Fix" Iraq
"Fix" Education
"Fix" the Economy
"Fix" Energy Policy
"Fix" Social Security but only when they can get "full" credit for it.
"Fix" Gas Prices
"Fix" the direction the country is going in for the last seven years and a little less than seven months.
"Fix" Gun Control
"Fix" Immigration
"Fix" the U.S. tax code so only the richest of the rich pay more taxes under the Obama "plan". This last one is an edit but I can't even tell a person how in the world I had forgotten this one.


And last but not least hope and change is all we need to accomplish these very important goals.

I am trying to remember what I left off the list though?

[P562045]

Have the democrats promised in the past to fix the very things I have mentioned already?



And why have these things not been fixed let's just say since January of 2007?

[P562045]

Oh wait these things have not been fixed because we must maintain the Bush/Conservatives are evil mantra for just a few more months now. [November 4, 2008]

[P562045]

It simply amazes me that the very people that run around and say change is so very needed are the very same people that make sure that Washington remains the same and the changes that have been made are simply "window dressing" to the much larger picture and I just explained the very reason why this is happening in the first place in my previous post to this one.

[P562045]

Well I guess I have summed up very well the democrats plan for America which many things on my list have been going on for how long now and another question could be how long will it take for the democrats to get what they truly want? Hopefully everything on my list will be fixed about two years from now or if there are right conditions in the senate next January a year from now.

Well Iraq has only been going on since the early 1990's but how long have the democrats been on their war is evil theme? And of course war is not pretty at all but there are reasons why wars in the first place right?

And what have the republicans added to their list in the last four plus decades of things they pretend they are concerned but the only real reason they are really concerned about it is so they can win elections. What I have been just discussing has been going on a lot longer than a little less then seven years ago but that is the day that America got a "wake up call" on that day but it seems to me that now we have "lost" our way with our resolve to deal with it.

I am so trying to remember what the democrats so want us to forget because it is not on my list of things that democrats think we should be focusing our efforts on as a country.

And why is the one thing that should be on my list but is not on my list in the first place. Because all of those things on the democrats list that they want to "fix" cost a lot of money in order to get it right and of course the way they want it to work as well.

[P562045]

Now I have a very good question about all of this.

As we all know Obama is trying to convince us that he is so not like the president we have now but how are the people supposed to know that he is going to be a better president than the one we have now?

I could actually ask the exact some question about McCain as well.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by P562045

Now I have a very good question about all of this.

As we all know Obama is trying to convince us that he is so not like the president we have now but how are the people supposed to know that he is going to be a better president than the one we have now?

I could actually ask the exact some question about McCain as well.

Regardless of which person is elected, I don't know if a president could lower the bar any lower than W. has... essentially shredding the constitution in the name of a fabricated war would just be the preface to how bad W. has been for this country. I doubt anyone elected to the office of president will restore the civil liberties that were taken away from all of us, I guess we can only hope they choose to let us have the few freedoms that we have left before they tax us to death...

[P562045]

Originally Posted by SayOw

Regardless of which person is elected, I don't know if a president could lower the bar any lower than W. has... essentially shredding the constitution in the name of a fabricated war would just be the preface to how bad W. has been for this country. I doubt anyone elected to the office of president will restore the civil liberties that were taken away from all of us, I guess we can only hope they choose to let us have the few freedoms that we have left before they tax us to death...

I think that the next president whomever they are could possibly make the president we have now look like he should be put up on Mount Rushmore with Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington.

We all just have the fixation on the president but the congress has no role in this whatsoever? We all know better than that.

And the leadership in the congress is not going to changing in the very near future. Why is that important? Because these are the real people that are going to be saying which direction the country will be going in the near future. Because the leadership in both bodies if they don't like something can just make sure something never gets to the floor to be voted on in the first place. And if people have been reading my thread about what has this congress been doing for a little over nineteen months now the people should be up in arms and come November I am just getting a weird feeling that Washington at least the congress may be getting a real wake up call from the voters.

So what are we left with. A whole lot of nothing and this partially led to our situation we are in now. Now I must take us back to that day back in the mid 90's where we got a new republican congress and a president that did not get along very well. I am sure we all remember this.

What happened ten years ago today and what was our response to this?

Yet again a whole lot of nothing. Oh sure the president years latter promised that he did everything he possibly could. I seem to remember it was when he was trying to sell a book about his life. But what else was he going to say really?

Then we move forward to a little less than seven years ago. It took the congress a little over a month to take many of our civil liberties away. But the president had to take action because if a person remembers the people were like do something but this was out of fear more than anything.

And I can guarantee whomever the next president is if they are put in the same situation they would do the exact same things as the president we have now did.

This is pure power that only forty-two people have ever known and the next president is just going to resist these types of powers that are given to them? As I just said to me that is just highly unlikely to impossible for me to even fathom to just think that the next president will just do the right thing. And there is an important reason that will not really be given but it is understood and that is that human life must be protected and whatever the cost is we must do it no matter what the cost is. And in this particular case just part of the cost was losing part of our civil liberties.

There is one example of our civil liberties being infringed upon even today but it may be to a little lesser degree but I do not know that for sure. There are still very stringent security precautions at airports. Did people raise a cow when this first happened or did a vast majority of people just dealt with it and did not question what was going on. Now the question I have always had about this even right after it happened is do these safety measures actually keep us any safer or not? And I do not even think very many people would be even able to answer this question.

And where exactly are these documents that the president himself ordered to be faked so that he only without congress giving the o.k. at? As we all know it was a very bipartisan effort to give the president the authority to go with Iraq in the first place. Hopefully the president just destroyed these documents so we could not examine them now.

I sure would like to see them.

But never fear the democrats are going to save us from ourselves and we never have to worry about any problems ever again.

Do I really need to go find how many members of congress voted for the Patriot Act of 2001 back in late October of that year? Why do I even mention this over and over and over again. Because that is when the president realized that he had even more power than he ever though he could imagine.

And one last thing about this. Do people really think that any abuse of power that can be come up with this is the only president to use those powers and abuse them as well?

Let's see I am trying to remember why former President Clinton would need to have F.B.I. files of his enemies on his desk while he is president.

Then let's see former President Carter was so appalled that former President Ford had a wiretapping program that he almost immediately ordered it to be stopped. And I am sure I could go on and on about this but a person gets the point.

So what did President Roosevelt do to people of Japanese descent right after Pearl Harbor happened?

This is not to excuse what the president did. I am just giving a few examples that I can think of right now that the president that we have now is not the only president ever to abuse his powers.

But the real question is what are people going to do when the next situation comes up like what I have described in this post? And there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that it will happen again.

[P562045]

I find this pretty interesting from late last year when Obama was answering some questions about the president abusing his power.

Now as people have noticed I have very cynical of Obama and McCain as well when it comes to them answering these question.

I have just one question about what Obama said when he answered these particular questions did he give us the answers people wanted to hear or does he really believe what he said in his answers.

And just to be very clear I would be just as skeptical of McCain's answers if he was asked the exact same questions as well.

I don't even really know how to explain why I am feeling this way and have been repeating the same things over and over again. I just have a gut feeling towards both of them actually. And to be quite frank as much as we have been through in the last little over seven and a half years I think it is quite proper for me to be a little skeptical of anyone in Washington.

I will be putting these questions over in the Obama thread as well a little latter on because I think it is that important that Obama or McCain for that matter stick to what they say and not say one thing one time and say the total opposite the next time. And the people have picked up on this and have mentioned this numerous times just in past few weeks or so.

Questions Here

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by P562045

And there is an important reason that will not really be given but it is understood and that is that human life must be protected and whatever the cost is we must do it no matter what the cost is. And in this particular case just part of the cost was losing part of our civil liberties.

Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

There is absolutely no justification that American's freedoms should ever be taken away... you can try and rationalize it like most everyone else but the facts remain the same...we are no longer "Land of the Free and Home Of The Brave" we are the "Land of the scared and the home of the cowering." because that was the justification for our freedoms being taken away.

I don't know if I can even give you any credibility in your political opinions because you clearly gobble up the GOP talking points, add your own tact and attempt to justify blatant incorrectness by the party you are aligned with. And to justify this current administration's stripping of our freedoms by stating most anyone would have "likely" done the same... I disagree.

And I really doubt that the next president could be any worse then W. but I am sure they will do their best to prove me wrong...

And I will tell you what... I am a prophet, I know who will be the next president and the process as to how he will grab the office. What? You say, you need proof... ok, here is the scenario for the '08 elections complete with the results...

Starting in September and continuing up to election day, oil and gas prices both begin to drop, likely below $3 a gallon. Media talking heads come out and say why now? How is this possible? Big oil/government spokespeople come out and say with little disruptions in distribution, increased domestic production, reduced consumption and demand, etc. (all the regular excuses) is the reason gas prices have begun to decline.

Bam, John McCain is elected president and sometime in February oil companies begin to creep their gas prices back up and continue to do so until the next election cycle. Big oil doesn't want to lose their pawn in the White House and McCain may not be the blatantly observable big oil wh0re, but will have to suffice for the oil companies.

And of course you can say that Americans aren't going to go out and vote for a guy solely on gas prices but those folks are the minority. Americans are all about 'today' not yesterday and certainly don't think about tomorrow.

[hork]

Originally Posted by SayOw

And of course you can say that Americans aren't going to go out and vote for a guy solely on gas prices but those folks are the minority. Americans are all about 'today' not yesterday and certainly don't think about tomorrow.

I wish I could call you a cynic or paint you as a paranoid, but sadly I know full well you are spot on and it saddens me that I can't argue your statement

[StockTrader]

I think some of us have left Earth and have enetered 'Planet Looney'.

Nick

[hork]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

I think some of us have left Earth and have enetered 'Planet Looney'.

Nick

that happened quite a while ago, i've just decided to stop pointing it out in an attempt to make the boards more civil.