Report: Ryan Braun Tests Positive For Performance-Enhancing Drugs

[StockTrader]

Originally Posted by SayOw

Just as I thought...

He got away with cheating...get a high priced DUI like lawyer and they'll never dispute the results of the test...but everything before, during and after. OJ defense at it's finest. Don't dispute the evidence but rather, put the procedure and the entire system on trial.

The fix is/was in, for sure, I'm just wondering at how much of a coincidence the first player ever to get off on a technicality happens to play for the commissioner's team and is the reigning MVP? So my guess is Selig is behind the nefarious activities...but the other owners won't have any problems with it because they want steroids in the game just as badly as the players do.

MLBaseball, again, does it's best to keep it's image tied with steroids... a complete sham.

If we want to finally score a "victory" for the players, this is as close as they will ever get...but keep in mind, the player at no time disputed the test or the results of the test...he got off because someone left the samples on their desk for 2 days. No proof that the samples were tampered with, no proof that the sample wasn't Ryan Braun's. Pay off 2 of 3 arbitrator's and you got yourself a win because no one with an ounce of common sense would have agreed with the defense's case.

The defense doesn't need to prove that they WERE tampered with; the prosecution needs to prove that they WEREN'T tampered with. That's rudimentary law ...

If the law was guilty until proven innocent, then the defense would need to prove they WERE tampered with. Right?

Nick

[rich76]

This is meaningless?

We provided complete cooperation throughout, despite the highly unusual circumstances. I have been an open book, willing to share details from every aspect of my life as part of this investigation, because I have nothing to hide," Braun said in his statement. "I have passed over 25 drug tests in my career, including at least three in the past year."


A person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press that, after being informed of the positive result, Braun asked to have another urine test taken, and that the second test was within normal range.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

The defense doesn't need to prove that they WERE tampered with; the prosecution needs to prove that they WEREN'T tampered with. That's rudimentary law ...

If the law was guilty until proven innocent, then the defense would need to prove they WERE tampered with. Right?

Nick

All legalize which equals, OJ didn't kill Nicole either. As I continue to say, you get a good enough lawyer, you can get away with murder. And ok, so your right...does that mean Braun didn't use steroids? Absolutely not. He just got away with using steroids...which is my point.

The player's agreed to the process and then are able to come back and put the process on trial...that's bs right there, if you ask me.

And sure, the defense doesn't need to prove that the samples weren't tampered with, but anyone with a clue knows that if he truly didn't take PED's then they would put the evidence on trial, not the procedure.

But, it's not only that the defense's case was extremely flimsy, which it was by almost every account I have heard, it's the fact that he actually won. Which then clouds this whole issue. If more players begin to overturn their positive tests, guess what we will have then? Even more cheaters...again. The process was put in place, agreed by owners and players and that is all thrown out the window to protect one "superstar"....seems very tenuous at best, imo.

Originally Posted by rich76

This is meaningless?

We provided complete cooperation throughout, despite the highly unusual circumstances. I have been an open book, willing to share details from every aspect of my life as part of this investigation, because I have nothing to hide," Braun said in his statement. "I have passed over 25 drug tests in my career, including at least three in the past year."


A person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press that, after being informed of the positive result, Braun asked to have another urine test taken, and that the second test was within normal range.

Yes it is meaningless... the first paragraph is the typical response from every athlete that has tested positive and, again, Barry Bonds never failed a steroid test.

The second paragraph is also moot....it was 2 months after the first test that Braun was notified of his positive test and sure, take another one, but he has had ample time to "get clean".

My sentiments, from the same article your quotes are from:

“To have this sort of technicality of all technicalities let a player off ... it’s just a sad day for all the clean players and those that abide by the rules within professional baseball,” Tygart said.

From every account I have heard, there is little doubt that this guy cheated...everyone is almost on consensus with that. He just got away with it is what people are talking about...just like OJ, Barry, the Rocket, etc....

[P562045]

This situation we are discussing is just a little odd to me. I seem to remember that no one has successfully defended a positive test until all of sudden the latest N.L. MVP does. And this comes after a pretty quiet new collective bargaining negotiations between the owners and players. As I said this is just a little odd to me for some reason that is for sure.

[ProneEisenrott]

Originally Posted by SayOw

From every account I have heard, there is little doubt that this guy cheated...everyone is almost on consensus with that. He just got away with it is what people are talking about...just like OJ, Barry, the Rocket, etc....

Interesting take, because just about everyone I heard on ESPN over the last couple of days has said the opposite. They said that he seems believeable and has a solid track record that lends credibility to his innocence.

[yon Beast]

]I have a few issues that need attending. Besides that, I be a 'layman'.
Also a big fan of Sayow....who knows and reads about every things much more than I. I tend (in this case and probably most) to be very biased.....on Ryan Braun's side.
Are these tests 100% infallible?
artificial testosterone??....or elevated?...do they consider elevated to be artificial?
Most definitely, I be happy with his appeal result.
I am not happy with appeal process even though it went 'my' way. I too, would like to have juror information and why each appeal is relevant, among other things.
I have enough at this point to be a part of a hung jury (undecided but with prejudice).....so my view at this point is he is innocent....until proven guilty.
Chances are, there will be those that believe "where there's smoke....", the problem being that it is so easy to create "smoke" these days....and it always leaves a stain!

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by ProneEisenrott

Interesting take, because just about everyone I heard on ESPN over the last couple of days has said the opposite. They said that he seems believeable and has a solid track record that lends credibility to his innocence.

I try to avoid ESPN because their bias and journalistic integrity is well documented and near horrible....but it doesn't surprise me. ESPN is more than happy to brush steroids under the rug because they love the big ratings. If there aren't players jacking 70+ hr's a year, their ratings aren't as big. ESPN is equal to FOX news in being fair and balanced, imo.

From this story:

Make no mistake: This was a technicality. It was a loophole. Most of all, it was brilliant lawyering by Braun’s attorneys. Hundreds of tests had been handled in exactly the same manner in baseball and never before had the players’ union protested their accuracy. Sources from MLB and the union told Yahoo! Sports the chain-of-custody section of the joint-drug agreement is likely to be rewritten to ensure that a defense similar to Braun’s would have no legs. Because even some inside baseball who should be on Braun’s side – players, agents and other officials – see his prevailing as a Pyrrhic victory.

Originally Posted by da Beast

Are these tests 100% infallible?
artificial testosterone??....or elevated?...do they consider elevated to be artificial?

Elevated amounts of testosterone were found and then further tests revealed that synthetic testosterone was found.

Are the tests 100% infallible? -short answer YES. In all instances and all cases regarding steroids and athletes, not once has results of the tests been overturned and most of the time, like in this case, the defendant attacks the procedure.

There is little doubt in my mind he cheated, knows he did and got away with it.

[yon Beast]

Thank you SayOw.

Am I correct in assuming that appeals process needs upgrading?
If tests are indeed 100% infallible, how can they base an appeal on the process?

[ProneEisenrott]

SayOw surely knows that no drug test is 100% infallible (type 1 and type 2 errors exist in all clinical tests.) And even if it were, it would not be immune to intentional human manipulation, as in the case of the tampering that Braun alleges.

Like every other high-profile slugger accused of using steroids and found guilty, Braun's denial may be just be a desperate attempt to save face. But if that's the case, we should either expect another positive test in the near future or a rapid decline in his numbers. I guess only time will tell.

[bballjer44]

Originally Posted by da Beast

Thank you SayOw.

Am I correct in assuming that appeals process needs upgrading?
If tests are indeed 100% infallible, how can they base an appeal on the process?

They didn't appeal the results, they appealed the charge of custody. Legal loophole. Does anyone really think someone taking the enhancements had access to his sample, dumped it, and took a whiz?

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by da Beast

Thank you SayOw.

Am I correct in assuming that appeals process needs upgrading?
If tests are indeed 100% infallible, how can they base an appeal on the process?

This is right:

Originally Posted by bballjer44

They didn't appeal the results, they appealed the charge of custody. Legal loophole. Does anyone really think someone taking the enhancements had access to his sample, dumped it, and took a whiz?

The appeals board is a joke as well...there is a person from the union, who always votes for the player no matter what, a person from the MLB who always votes for the MLB side no matter what and then a third "neutral" party that is assigned to hear the case.

It will not surprise me if in a year, two, maybe 5, whenever ... but at some point down the road when everyone has forgotten (except for me!) the ruling in this case and we find out that the "neutral" party was somehow coerced or influenced.

But what this case really illustrates, more than anything, is that the MLBPA will still embrace steroid use and do whatever they can to protect their players. The owners put up a feint defense trying to pretend that they are going to crack down on steroid use...but I think both sides are more than content to let the users continue to use if possible.

Originally Posted by ProneEisenrott

SayOw surely knows that no drug test is 100% infallible (type 1 and type 2 errors exist in all clinical tests.) And even if it were, it would not be immune to intentional human manipulation, as in the case of the tampering that Braun alleges.

Like every other high-profile slugger accused of using steroids and found guilty, Braun's denial may be just be a desperate attempt to save face. But if that's the case, we should either expect another positive test in the near future or a rapid decline in his numbers. I guess only time will tell.

The chance of an error happening to two samples (which is the norm taken now) is very remote.... even for one sample, the testing is, for the most part, very accurate. The science around the testing was put to task during the Floyd Landis case and was rebuked. And there has yet to be any successful case around steroid use that has disputed the results of the test.

Braun did not allege that there was manipulation to his sample, because they couldn't prove it, they simply inferred that his sample could have been manipulated and didn't even go on to describe how because they couldn't do that either...the samples were sealed and not tampered with. His case is as flimsy as they get and not one single person without the money and resources that Ryan Braun has would be able to win a case based on the inference that a sample could have been tampered with...but wasn't.

[TheWinman]

Originally Posted by SayOw

I try to avoid ESPN because their bias and journalistic integrity is well documented and near horrible....but it doesn't surprise me. ESPN is more than happy to brush steroids under the rug because they love the big ratings. If there aren't players jacking 70+ hr's a year, their ratings aren't as big. ESPN is equal to FOX news in being fair and balanced, imo.

From this story:





Elevated amounts of testosterone were found and then further tests revealed that synthetic testosterone was found.

Are the tests 100% infallible? -short answer YES. In all instances and all cases regarding steroids and athletes, not once has results of the tests been overturned and most of the time, like in this case, the defendant attacks the procedure.

There is little doubt in my mind he cheated, knows he did and got away with it.

Agree 100%

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by SayOw

There is little doubt in my mind he cheated, knows he did and got away with it.

Guess what...

Ryan Braun admitted taking performance-enhancing drugs during his NL MVP season of 2011.

Story here.

After he, like Lance Armstrong, decided to trash anyone that said otherwise in his defense...yet, he was GUILTY the entire time.

I hate to side with the testing process and (naively) at one time thought the cheaters might have valid claims of innocence because of their adamant and sometimes seemingly sincere claims that they didn't cheat...but that has now been long washed away...I now side with the "law" (as much as I hate to admit it) because EVERY cheater has now been shown to have done exactly what the claims against them have been...CHEATING...

The cheaters now resort to other methods to try to dodge the system...put the process on the trial, not their results or anything else...they don't deny cheating, but contest the "process" which apparently is unfair to them because they got caught cheating...and still get away with it...

It is a sad state of affairs... imo.

[SayOw]

I guess I'm very redundant...

Originally Posted by SayOw

There has yet to be one athlete who has tested positive for PED's that has denied it and has been vilified.

I use to think the players deserved the benefit of the doubt...not anymore. Once a positive test has been reached, usually a second sample was also done and the tests independently verified so that the conclusion has little doubt and wiggle room for the athlete that tested positive.

Whether or not you want to believe that the players are "knowingly" taking steroids or not - whether they say they had tainted supplements, food, water, etc... - that can be your prerogative, but the most likely scenario is that these guys know exactly what they are doing and knowingly trying to cheat.