Global Warming Discussion

[P562045]

I was just watching Book Tv on C-SPAN 2 and they had an author that had a book called "Big Green Purse...."

The author showed great concern that we produce very little organic cotton in the U.S. which could be used to make a ton of clothes.

The title of this book is a wonderful metaphor.

Governments and even individuals can make a lot of green while riding this obvious trend.

And of course there is also the obvious benefit of saving the planet.

I always wonder why the first thing I mentioned is not nearly talked about near as much as the second thing I mentioned.

This is mostly about money and not saving the planet from great peril. How do I know this? People can come up with creative ways to save the planet but how do people actually know that it is working because the very same people that say going green does help are mostly the same people that can make money off people going green as well.

I have noticed lately many companies acting like they are so concerned about going green.

Just thought I would give another reminder of some of the reasons we should all go green and why this is popping up more and more yet again. It could just be the rising temperatures as well though.

And no I am not saying that going green is necessarily a bad thing but I want people to know the reasons why they are doing so.

But last December when people were much more concerned about Santa coming to their house the president signed into law that by 2012-2014 incandescent lights bulbs can't be purchased anymore. An incandescent bulb are the old one that don't last nearly as long. Why is there more than one year p? It will take about three years to phase out all of the old bulbs but I think the least efficient which are the 100 watt bulbs will be going first and so on.

I do have a problem with this type of thing though. And that is what else does the federal government want to say we can and can not purchase? Where does this type of thing end.

That is a very dangerous precedent that has been set because I don't want someone else saying what I can and can not purchase because what happens if something I like is all of sudden can't be purchased anymore?

I should give Washington a great idea. Chocolate and other junk food should not be purchased in the U.S. because it can lead to obesity in kids and even adults which leads to health concerns that we all pay for one way of the other. There is one problem with this there is a great deal of money to be made from these types of products even schools do it now and the main reason is to make extra money.

I am sure people could come up with reasons why most things should not be purchased for one reason or another. Ladders can be very dangerous and can even cause death in some cases.

So where does this type of thing end when it comes to what we can and can not purchase?

Congress long summary of the bill that makes many things more efficient such as cars

Even the white house talks about this very important bill

Was this a big news story last December?

Why does it not surprise me at all that this particular congress thinks this is a very good idea?

[Chin Music Express]

Originally Posted by P562045

And no I am not saying that going green is necessarily a bad thing but I want people to know the reasons why they are doing so.

But last December when people were much more concerned about Santa coming to their house the president signed into law that by 2012-2014 incandescent lights bulbs can't be purchased anymore. An incandescent bulb are the old one that don't last nearly as long. Why is there more than one year p? It will take about three years to phase out all of the old bulbs but I think the least efficient which are the 100 watt bulbs will be going first and so on.

I do have a problem with this type of thing though. And that is what else does the federal government want to say we can and can not purchase? Where does this type of thing end.

The sad thing is they jumped on the carbon neutral bandwagon. The government have no problems telling us common people how to live but are afraid to enforce the rules when it comes to big business. They have been giving companies extension to clean up their plants every year or not even enforce the rules. Not to mention they let big business put all kinds of things in our food that are not healthy for us but they have to tell me what type of light bulb I have use when I read my newspaper.

The sad thing how many of people in Congress know these new and improved light bulbs have mercury in them and require special disposal.

Actually, going green is is cheap and easy. Many grocery stores in my town will give you a refund for each bag you bring. You can make your own Windex with vinegar and water not to mention other household cleaners with products you all ready have at home.

[StockTrader]

Originally Posted by Chin Music Express

The sad thing is they jumped on the carbon neutral bandwagon. The government have no problems telling us common people how to live but are afraid to enforce the rules when it comes to big business. They have been giving companies extension to clean up their plants every year or not even enforce the rules. Not to mention they let big business put all kinds of things in our food that are not healthy for us but they have to tell me what type of light bulb I have use when I read my newspaper.

The sad thing how many of people in Congress know these new and improved light bulbs have mercury in them and require special disposal.

Actually, going green is is cheap and easy. Many grocery stores in my town will give you a refund for each bag you bring. You can make your own Windex with vinegar and water not to mention other household cleaners with products you all ready have at home.

Yeah! F big business. F the big business that helped create the country we live in.

Ha! Give me this data about global warming since the 1700's and then I'll join your side. GIVE ME SOMETHING SUBSTAINAL and not THEORETICAL and I'm there. Until then, quit taxing [not on the literal term] me with your crap about how bad I am for the Earth.

Nick

[hork]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Yeah! F big business. F the big business that helped create the country we live in.

Ha! Give me this data about global warming since the 1700's and then I'll join your side. GIVE ME SOMETHING SUBSTAINAL and not THEORETICAL and I'm there. Until then, quit taxing [not on the literal term] me with your crap about how bad I am for the Earth.

Nick

The rest of the information you requested can be found at the same site.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/

I'll assume that those who like to toss around the words -- sensationalism, paranoia, conspiracy theory, etc. will appreciate who the host of this site is.

[StockTrader]

Originally Posted by hork

The rest of the information you requested can be found at the same site.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/

I'll assume that those who like to toss around the words -- sensationalism, paranoia, conspiracy theory, etc. will appreciate who the host of this site is.

Ha, except my grandfather worked for the EPA and thought that we didn't know the whole cause/effect of 'global warming' ... so I guess I don't appreciate 3 views coming from the EPA's office.

Nick

[hork]

i think we all pretty much know the causes. at least if we're open to actually doing some research on the subject before allowing the media and/or the masses to form our opinions for us.

i don't think anyone who really understands the issue would argue that climate change is a natural cycle. nor would those who understand the issue argue that while it is natural there is little doubt that man is exacerbating the problem.

so while it would be foolish to fault man exclusively, it's equally foolish to think he is innocent and has nothing to do with the problem.

[OldBoyGibby]

It's all cyclical...Dennis Miller put it best when he said he didn't trust the accuracy of temperature readings from 100 years ago when most of the world was still crapping in outhouses.

Or another Miller quote:

"There's a lot of differing data [about global warming], but as far as I can gather, over the last hundred years the temperature on this planet has gone up 1.8 degrees. Am I the only one who finds that amazingly stable? I could go back to my hotel room tonight and futz with the thermostat for three to four hours. I could not detect that difference."

[P562045]

I think Earth day 2008 is a good time to discuss this some more.

I have discussed this somewhere else in the past but I would like to remind everyone again.

Biofuels need corn and other crops to be used in order to make the fuel. There is also a high demand for these types of crops around the world as well. These two things combined make the prices of these crops go up because there is more of demand for them for various reasons including food and I have not heard very many stories about increased production of these crops. Maybe it is happening and just not be reported because someone could make a ton of money just growing these crops.

Story Here

I have a story about those wonderful compact florescent light bulbs all of us must buy no matter what by the year 2014. I put one in a room that has a fair amount of light being used but not really much more than any other room. I put it in around the one year anniversary of the democrats taking over the congress. [Jan. 4] I was led to believe that the cost even though it was fours times as much it would last four times as long as well. The light went out last week in mid April. Now I actually think I got this bulb for less than they are now and partly because they were on sale. The bulb cost about twice as much as an old bulb but did they last even twice as long? My experience with this particular bulb was that it barely lasted longer than an old bulb. I have one other complaint about the newer bulbs they don't put out nearly as much light as the old ones which is part of the point but for me it is somewhat hard for me to read. And as many people know I read a lot about a lot of different subjects.

My all time favorite Earth day story was about five years ago and Al Gore was talking about Global warming and the news was showing the president out west it was either Montana or Idaho and it was snowing.

I always thought did the president know exactly what he was doing and wanted to make Al Gore look foolish?



So please go out and hug a tree today I will be doing so a little latter on after the thunderstorms move out and while you are at it plant one as well. And if you don't have a tree to plant I am sure Storm will give you a Maple seed for a very fair price. [Post 2 of this thread]

This brings up a point that bears repeating about this once again. There is no denying anymore that part of the motivation for this in the first place is to make a buck.

Yahoo is encouraging people to give their stuff away for free instead of putting it into landfills.

Link Here. Could I possibly make something like this up.

This is actually a good idea from Yahoo. The water tasted real weird so I went to gallon jugs of water for about a month now. I feel a little guilty because I drink about two gallons of water a week and I don't even know if the local recycling center, by the way it takes at least a thirty minute drive to get there on a good traffic day, takes those types of things or not. My local city I think this time next year will require all residents to recycle at least some things it could just be newspapers and soda cans to start out. I don't even remember if I will be paying a little bit extra for the service each month that I may or may not want to participate in.

Please no one tell my ultra conservative friends that I have an ounce of compassion for the environment they will probably never let me back in the group ever again.

I just think it is a very important thing to do today hug a tree.

And no I would not be caught dead hugging a tree on any other day of the year.

Actually I will probably go to the park and hug a tree where no one can possibly see that I am doing so. Boy that sounds like a really good idea.

[islandgirl]

I think right now the US is in the same stage a few other countries were in a couple of years ago (including Canada). Asking for proof and blaming this and that for "global warming", questioning whether it even exists.

You get to a point though when you realize that it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. The fact is, right now we're causing some harm to this planet and we need to take responsibility for what we're doing. Who cares what the ice level is now compared to what it was back in the 1700's? Right now, let's try and mitigate the damages we've made in the past oh, fifty years.

Can we as individuals help out? For sure. Should other countries, the corporations and governments do their share? Definitely. We just need to do the little things and ensure our elected officials do their part as well - this includes clamping down on the corporations who do the most damage. I'm not saying everyone eat granola and wear hemp clothing, but try and save some energy where you can. Recycle. It's really not that hard and some programs can even save you money in the long run. They have in our house.

Yeah, things aren't perfect yet. Biofuel, for sure. It's causing a shortage of grains right now and raising the prices of food and other things. Compact florescent bulbs are another "work in progress" (although the ones we've been using in our house have lasted longer than what I'm reading here). But at least it's a step in the right direction.

I think a big part of the problem is what Nick said: stop telling us that we're the bad guys! We get our back up and go on the defensive. Our Province just started a "Carbon Tax" that really just punishes the average person. You want people to change their ways? Reward them for doing good (ie, tax incentives), don't punish them to make them change.

One nice surprise, although we'll see if they follow through, is that our government is going after the companies that are big polluters/energy hogs, despite the $$'s they put into campaigns. As I work for the government, I see the letters from these companies complaining. Our response so far has been "deal with it", so I'm cautiously optomistic.

[P562045]

This is a public service announcement.

In the rush to save the earth there is only one little problem with these new compact florescent bulbs.

They contain tiny amounts of mercury as does the older incandescent bulbs. Why do light bulb need mercury in them in the first place?

These are the steps a person should follow if any including the old light bulbs should break.

1. First make sure you open up any nearby windows and doors to help ventilate the area.
2. Make sure you use rubber gloves to pick up the pieces. Whatever you do, don't use your bare hands.
3. Put the broken parts into a resealable plastic bag.
4. And then wash the area with soap and water.

Story Here

[P562045]

A mere $45,000,000,000,000 is needed to reverse the effects of global warming a study shows over a forty year period from 2010-2050. Now if this is such an important problem why are we waiting two more years to start "fixing" the problem?

That is just over a trillion dollars a year and of course a few other countries will help us with this very important problem. Who cares if China and India that have about a third of world's population are building things that worsens the problem. The rest of industrialized world will just pick up the slack and also the tab for these two countries that will get off without them having to reduce their own emissions.

I was reading somewhere awhile ago that China has surpassed sometime last year us as the worlds biggest polluter. But we are more than likely going to exclude China from having to lower their emissions. That o.k. though throwing money at the problem will always fix any problem that comes along.

I just love this little section of the story.

"A U.N.-network of scientists concluded last year that emissions have to be cut by at least half by 2050 to avoid an increase in world temperatures of between 3.6 and 4.2 degrees above pre-18th century levels."

I would think what has just been described has already happened right?

But never fear a mere forty five trillion dollars will fix all of our problems and we will never have to deal with this problem again.

I only have one other question.

How exactly do these scientists know that cutting emissions by 50% is the magical percent that makes the problem just go away?

Story Here

[P562045]

A N.A.S.A. climate specialist revealed for the first time almost twenty years ago and I quote, "the greenhouse effect has been detected and is changing our climate now.”

I am kind of surprised we are all still here twenty years latter.

Well of course I am not really surprised because there is that little matter of science having absolutes in them and I would think that all scientists would have to agree about what the real effects of global warming are but this is not actually happening in the scientific community and we must know what the real effects of global warming are before we can do something about these effects right?

Story Here

And we have evidence that has been used in the past to point to evidence when it is not really evidence at all. My favorite is the erosion of beaches definitely shows that global warming is actually happening and we better do something now or the consequences are going to be dramatic. I seem to remember that at least a portion of Long Island will be under water in the next forty years or so. Well this is very true but only partly because of global warming if any at all and there is this little matter of actual beach erosion all around Long Island but this naturally occurs and there is very little we can actually do about it unless we want to spend a boatload of money and actually replace the sand along the edges of Long Island along the beaches which actually can be done but as I said it is a very expensive process as I just said.

I wish that I could figure out a way to show my post about what happens when humans screw around with nature. This was the story about the lake in Florida that was a vital source of water for some farmers and it was getting low so because of a drought in the area some farmers wanted to get water back in the lake at a great expense to all of us really. Where do you think a lot of sugar and citrus comes from?

Where I talk about what I was just talking about is in post #28 of this thread which is towards the bottom of page three.

That reminds me about our solutions to this very real problem of global warming how do we know we are not doing more harm than good.

[P562045]

I sure do hope Santa is going to be all right.

I just love how this article says something could happen but it could not actually happen as well.

Just another little journalism trick to make something that has not happened yet seem like it has happened already.

The North Pole for the first time in human history is going to be ice free.

How do we actually know this is true?

It may have been land way back in the day before humans were even on earth.

This is very much just a symbolic thing though and partly because it has never happened before.

"'Symbolically it is hugely important,' said Mark Serreze of the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado. 'There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water.'"

Now I am wondering during the winter will some of this water freeze again and make at least a sliver of ice again?

Part of the reason it is doing this now is because the sun is right over the pole and it melts faster around the summer equinox. Can't do much about the sun either and its position with regards to the earth now can we?

Story Here

[P562045]

Why is this story about biofuels not being told very much in this country?

Of course the media can not totally ignore the fact that biofuels have led to higher food prices in some foods.

So the Guardian in the United Kingdom reports about a report by the world bank about what I just said.

So why is this bigger news in Europe than here?

Europe does have their own biofuel program as well that must be pointed out.

I just love this darning last sentence of this article.

"All we are doing by supporting these [biofuels] is subsidising higher food prices, while doing nothing to tackle climate change."

I think this sentence explains the reason why we do not get as much coverage about this here.

Story Here

[P562045]

Where to put this story about electric cars are the only way to go. It should go here because electric cars are very good at reducing the effects of Global Warming.

There are three very good reasons for electric cars.

They are and I quote, "It's cleaner, it's cheaper and it's domestic."

I just love how this article also points out that we already have the electrical capacity to put over 100,000,000 cars like this on the road.

So let's see if the demand for something goes up does the price go up or down?

And how much do these batteries weigh. I can people see people all bleary eyed in the morning taking out their 7 pound battery and putting it in their car about each time they want to go somewhere.

This article barely mentions the downsides of course.

These cars will only have a range of about 40 miles.

So I guess we all have a round trip commute of less than that to get to work. Maybe some would need two cars to get themselves home. I am sure work would just love a bunch of employees using their electricity for their car. Hopefully the employer will just calculate and take this extra electrical use out of their paychecks automatically.

Oh never mind the car does come equipped with a fossil fuel burning component to it as well. So people can go a long way that way but that sort of defeats the purpose of the car in the first place right?

And this article also points out that General Motors does not see a real profit coming from these cars even at a price tag of $40,000. Part of the reason is that the battery alone can cost as much as $15,000 partly because there will be very little demand for the battery at first; and there could also be a downside to the battery as well. The so called experts don't even really know how reliable the batteries will be.

This so reminds me of ethanol. The reasons for that at the time was it was a much cleaner burning fuel than those icky fossil fuels but there were limitations with that idea as well.

And who really cares that the cost of certain items that we eat went up. So I am just wondering with this increase in the need for electricity how much a month a person's monthly bill will go up for something that they use each and everyday.

Article Here

Just remember I am the one that poured icy cold water on the idea of ethanol and for almost the exact same reason as electric cars. The only thing that will really change with this idea is the price of electricity will go up instead of corn and other things to make ethanol; but there is also one similarity between the two ideas as well and that is the cost prohibitive nature of people wanting to buy the cars in the first place.