Occupy Wall Street

[rich76]

good...these idiots are costing communities 1000's and 1000's of $$$$$ for security/clean-up/waste removal etc etc.The only thing they are accomplishing is pissing people off.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by rich76

good...these idiots are costing communities 1000's and 1000's of $$$$$ for security/clean-up/waste removal etc etc.The only thing they are accomplishing is pissing people off.

If the job situation in America remains as dire as it is, you can likely expect more and bigger gatherings to your dislike. But remember, there are many that are unemployed and sincere in their cries for reform.

I support revolution, unfortunately this "protest" is far from that...but I am keeping my fingers crossed. We saw what protests in Lybia mounted into...

[rich76]

I have absolutely no problem with crying for reform....I encourage it. I do have a problem with people causing major distress to financially strapped cities and towns that are laying off teachers and cutting back hours for many other govt employees with no evidence that their actions are , in any way, productive.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Did you just call President Obama a tyrant and call to have him killed?

IF NOT, what in the heck were you trying to imply?

Nick

That's quite a stretch...

I would support a revolution regardless of whoever was the president. And by revolution, I mean a massive overhaul of most laws in America.

The intent of my correlation was the fact that what were at first labeled as minor protests in Lybia (which were spawned from those in Syria), ended up gaining support so much so that it spawned a revolution.

The outcome of revolutions isn't necessarily dragging a dictator through the streets after killing him.

And really, nothing adding to the debate here...other than trying to maybe get me to state something you want to attack? I'm guessing...

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

I would never [EVER] hope for the current state of Lybia to exist in my country.

And that was my point.

Nick

It is tough to find that point in your previous responses...your allusions are tougher to find than mine, imo.

But I agree with that sentiment, so there really is no disagreement there.

[SayOw]

Guilty as charged...

I hope these conversations are taken in the spirit of the discussion and there are no hard feelings between anyone.

[SiteWolf]

of course your own allusions are easier for you to see...after all, you made 'em

I get > < close to closing this forum sometimes because I know there are people no longer even AT this site...in part because (at least to them) things got/get personal.....and I was also paying less attention

After all, politics can be VERY personal since to discuss it you iterate some of who you are.........and here...in characters on a screen only

We all want the same BASIC thing- to live enjoyable lives with the freedoms we expect.........it's how that happens where things diverge, sometimes quickly

[SayOw]

Police have used tear gas and “flash bang” grenades on a large crowd of demonstrators that lit a massive bonfire in the streets of downtown Oakland, Calif., in a conflict following a day of action that saw the city’s port closed after demonstrators blocked it.

Full story here.

The Oakland Occupy protest continues to show some "spunk" ... I like the way they are marching throughout the city and disrupting certain businesses...the other Occupy locations should take note of what's happening in Oakland...

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Ironic, isn't it?

The very companies paying taxes 'for' these bums are being disrupted from normal business.

Very ironic, if you ask me

Nick

It seems that many companies/corporations don't pay much in taxes...

Using information from the companies’ own corporate filings, however, the study concluded that a quarter of the 280 corporations owed less than 10 percent of profits in federal income taxes and 30 companies had no federal tax liability for the entire three-year period.

The report is being released as corporations are pushing for a cut in their official tax rate, saying the current system puts American companies at a disadvantage with competitors abroad and encourages them to shift jobs and investments overseas.

Story here.

[-mmm-]

So if belief in the “the dogma of democracy” seems only skin deep, there are reasons for it. During the prairie revolt that swept the Great Plains a century after the Constitution was ratified, the populist orator Mary Elizabeth Lease exclaimed: “Wall Street owns the country…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us…Money rules.”

That was 1890. Those agrarian populists boiled over with anger that corporations, banks, and government were ganging up to deprive every day people of their livelihood.

She should see us now.

John Boehner calls on the bankers, holds out his cup, and offers them total obeisance from the House majority if only they fill it.

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. GOP once again means Guardians of Privilege.

Barack Obama criticizes bankers as “fat cats”, then invites them to dine at a pricey New York restaurant where the tasting menu runs to $195 a person.

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. The President has raised more money from banks, hedge funds, and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Inch by inch he has conceded ground to them while espousing populist rhetoric that his very actions betray.

Let’s name this for what it is: hypocrisy made worse, the further perversion of democracy.
Democratic deviancy defined further downward. Our politicians are little more than money launderers in the trafficking of power and policy – fewer than six degrees of separation from the spirit and tactics of Tony Soprano.

Why New York’s Zuccotti Park is filled with people is no mystery. Reporters keep scratching their heads and asking: “Why are you here?” But it’s clear they are occupying Wall Street because Wall Street has occupied the country. And that’s why in public places across the country workaday Americans are standing up in solidarity. Did you see the sign a woman was carrying at a fraternal march in Iowa the other day? It read: “I can’t afford to buy a politician so I bought this sign.”

We know what all this money buys. Americans have learned the hard way that when rich organizations and wealthy individuals shower Washington with millions in campaign contributions, they get what they want.

Link

[SayOw]

Your link doesn't work...I would be interested in reading more...

I think that is a very good illustration of the sentiment of many today and me to a degree as well....

I make the most money I have ever have in my entire life, I have $0.00 in credit card debt and other than my monthly bills (utilities, groceries, etc) and house payment, I have no other debt. Yet, each month it is getting tougher and tougher to get by.

People that don't understand what the 'basic' sentiment of the occupy movement is, then they are living just fine or are facilitating the problem...willing slaves to the system.

And don't get me wrong, I am all for capitalism and the American Dream...but it can't be done by breaking the backs of the working class. The middle class is slowly sinking into the lower class and the upper class is buying bigger houses and more cars, boats and jets.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

If we're all living 'comfortable' lives, then why does it matter what other people have?

Many are not and it doesn't matter what other people have. But it does matter when people, who are satisfied with just living a respectable life, are not only prevented from doing so, but then also, essentially enslaved for those that can 'afford' such luxuries.

I also think you have stereotyped, incorrectly, many in the movement.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by StockTrader

Prove to me I have ...

With the exception of less than 10% of all Americans [probably less than 5%] there are all things we could cut in our daily lives to help make ends meet. I am willing to agree that there are extreme circumstances that make it hard for the ends to meet -- hence the < 10% instead of 0% -- and those are the circumstances when I feel the Government is most suited to intervene.

Nick

1st: I would be marching right alongside these protesters if there was such a movement in my town that was meaningful. I would hardly classify myself or many of the other people I have seen as "bums". And if that is the label you are going to apply to us, then be prepared for the backlash.

2nd: Pie-in-the-sky fiction there...we all can do our part to cutback in our lives so those that are profiting can enjoy theirs. But until we are living in cardboard boxes in parks and streets, you can cry for cutting back to make ends meet, but most of us don't want to take that last step to make you happy...And reverting our country to 3rd world characteristics: ie: walking/biking to work, cooking food over open flame, washing clothes in streams... really? That's the progress you think this country deserves?

[SiteWolf]

To me, the larger question not seemingly being asked is:

How did we arrive at a situation where the separation between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' has grown larger than it has been in our country's history?

Has it been purely a logical progression of capitalism? Or have there been and continue to be unfair tactics being used by those with the power to do so that have resulted in this increasing division...

For example- have oil company executives earned their 7-8 figure salaries/bonuses or are they just sucking them out of the rest of us at $1/gallon?

In other words, we can use the Herman Cain mindset of 'they earned theirs, quit whining and find a way to earn yours' ....or we can take a look at how much of what has transpired is capitalism and how much is pure extortion.

I know this much, I see little value to humanity in general for a return of the Roman Empire...where a privileged few can ensure generations of their families want for nothing while the bulk of the rest feel fortunate to be able to continue keeping up with their debts.

[SayOw]

I think many Americans agree, that a literal flushing of every American law on the books down the toilet and a fresh start with the constitution as its basis would be a great step towards progress...as backwards as that may sound.

Take a look at income tax and taxes in general. Health care, social security, etc. and then make the laws that are best applicable today that will benefit all and incumber few. Foreign policy, domestic policies, etc... this country has been running on "status quo" for so long there is little doubt in my mind that a complete overhaul of America's legal system would be a very good thing.