OK...I've bit my tongue long enough

[rich76]

While I'd LOVE for Ken, Andrew and other libs to weigh in on this...as has been the case so far...I don't expect it. STILL can't figure out why. You guys ripped the shiznit out of every single thing you didn't like about Bush, McCain, Palin et all....yet you have nothing negative to say about our current jackass.

Here's what I feel so passionate about tonight...HEALTHCARE!!!

What have you Dems/Libs seen about ALL other govt run entities that lead you to believe that our govt is qualified to run healthcare?

Medicare? They're BROKE!
Medicaid? They're BROKE!
Amtrak? They're broke!
Social Security? They'll be broke real soon!
Fannie Mae? JOKE!
Freddie Mac? JOKE!

You guys (especially you Ken) talk about Constitution violations...exactly where in our constitution does it give our govt the authority or the power to regulate or run healthcare? It does NOT!

Obama is hellbent on getting this debacle through as I am QUITE sure that he is banking on this being his legacy.

I have said this more than once here....when he was elected, I was actually rooting for him to be successful...in getting this country and our economy back on track. Putting this much effort and tax dollars into getting healthcare through is the biggest mistake he EVER could have made and if it does NOT pass...the polls will reflect it in November and he can kiss a 2nd term goodbye...IMHO of course. Had he put as much $$$$ and effort into the economy - particularly JOBS - he'd be a TON better off than he is now.

What say ye?

[hork]

Originally Posted by rich76

While I'd LOVE for Ken, Andrew and other libs to weigh in on this...as has been the case so far...I don't expect it. STILL can't figure out why.

was explicitly asked to help maintain peace around here. and to refrain from engaging in any discussions that might be seen as antagonistic or may lead to discussions devolving into what amounts to playground trash talking in an attempt to keep newcomers from feeling as though the boards are too hostile an environment to post freely in.

at least in my case, that is the short answer to why i've refrained from posting on this board and in many of the threads in the jockstocks today forum.

that is not to suggest that i don't read such threads or should it in anyway be taken as an attempt by me to agree or disagree with any posted opinion. just figured i'd clear up the confusion as to why i've refrained from replying.

[Thunderbirds]

Rich,

There are two other items you missed in your lisitng. What about the 1/2 million new jobs that he was supposed ot have created in his first year? What about all of these czars that he has created without congressional approval.

[rich76]

Originally Posted by Thunderbirds

Rich,

There are two other items you missed in your lisitng. What about the 1/2 million new jobs that he was supposed ot have created in his first year? What about all of these czars that he has created without congressional approval.

I have actually mentioned the czars before:

http://forums.jockstocks.com/showthread.php?t=6570

I did mention jobs in my initial post in this thread as well.Pretty much the enitre last paragraph was about jobs.

Ken.....you mean to say that you cannot respond to a post here without being antagonistic or demeaning? I find that very difficult to understand.

[SiteWolf]

I do not, will not, and never want people to think I'm trying to put myself out there as ANY kind of knowledgeable on this. In MY case, I simply choose to remain somewhat uninformed because...well, I already take blood pressure pills as it is....

I will say I do understand Ken's situation to an extent, tho. After all, this forum has a decidedly 'right' feel lately...and your original post, Rich, was as well, yes?

That said, I've always thought political debates could be kept civil, but have seen over and over again (not just here) that, since the items being discussed get personal, so do the discussions. What disappoints me about these discussions, tho, is....why do they have to?

I would be lying if I didn't say I feel our boards here are quieter in part because this particular forum has had this exact issue....and that saddens me greatly. It saddens me even more that too many relationships here have been quashed by discussions here.

I would give my eye teeth to recover the forum activity we used to have. Rich, you know I have often said that the community was as much a part of why WSS worked as the game itself. Well, it's the same here- losing our community feel has most definitely effected overall site activity.

Anyway, enough on that...not meaning to hijack your thread...

so back to the discussion at hand....and just throwing something else out there...

Maybe I've just not seen or heard discussion about this part of things, but.....the largest single generation in US history has been paying taxes and into social security their entire adult lives...but are now reaching the age where they will be collecting, rather than paying in...as the so-called baby boomers are reaching retirement age. Where does ANY increase come from if there is a DEcrease in people it can come from?

[hork]

Originally Posted by rich76

Ken.....you mean to say that you cannot respond to a post here without being antagonistic or demeaning? I find that very difficult to understand.

not at all but if the past is any indication these threads have a tendency to devolve from intelligent discussion to stone throwing and name calling quicker than one can hit the submit button. so again, in an attempt to make the boards a friendlier place for new folks to post i agreed to refrain from engaging in potentially volatile discussions or those that have already reached that point (e.g., this one )

[rich76]

Ken/Orren......I can assure you...on my word and as sincere as I can be...I am having a hard time remembering any thread that went deep south without inducement from others either by their insulting some, demeaning some, or pretty much out and out implying that someone was a dumbass (maybe not in those exact words). We are all entitled to our opinions and feelings...whether right or wrong in anyone's eyes. Many attempts to try and make someone change those opinions or feelings have ended up in what you both have referred to. Ken.....if my statement was volatile to you ....then I apologize.

I can also say...WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE...that if ANY other president was forsaking job growth , the economy, or illegal aliens for healthcare...I would be posting the exact same thing. I am ALL for discussing things here.....what I AM against is the belittling and demeaning that has taken place. I agree 100% Orren....they should NOT get personal. I'd rather not...but could if need be...come up with many more of those situations coming from the Dems/Libs than anyone else. When that happens...people like me will "put 'em up" and defend myself. I'd have little if any respect for anyone that wouldn't.

I'm also having a hard time believing that other forums have been affected by this forum. I just don't see it. Enlighten me.

As far as WSS Orren.......I don't want to bring up old buried shiznit...but that community as you called it was sort of a farce no? Stock running...illegal shares in MANY ports etc.
Also there were significantly more members and thusly related to more posts.

[hork]

Originally Posted by rich76

Ken.....if my statement was volatile to you ....then I apologize.

not at all rich, in fact i felt your question as to why i haven't responded in here for a while was very appropriate. i just wanted to let you know the reason i've been quiet here.

[SiteWolf]

I do have a simple test to show you how posting here negatively effected posting elsewhere.

Name the most active posters in this forum from days past
Truth be known, there are more whose overall posting activity declined because of activity here than any other reason.....including the 2 of you, unless I'm misreading some.

But then, it's like politics in general- what start out as legitimately serious discussions too often degrade along party lines and too often devolve further into personal feelings being damaged, and no real resolution to the original discussion. Probably happens multiple times per day in every small and large group session in DC.

MY question is....how do we thwart it from happening HERE yet still HAVE discussions?

[rich76]

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

MY question is....how do we thwart it from happening HERE yet still HAVE discussions?

I have the simple answer to that Orren.

a promise and commitment by all who participate in this forum to NOT imply inferiority...to NOT be condescending...to RESPECT the fact that right or wrong EVERYONE has the right to their own feelings and opinions, HOWEVER "misguided" they may seem to others.

One of my favorite and informed posters here was tymy. He is IN the petroleum business and used to post some incredible insights that I enjoyed reading. He is no longer posting anywhere on these boards because of what I described directly above......and there are others......Joe Kloiber comes to mind as well. He left here due to the incredible disrepect shown by many towards police in general.......it sickens me no end.

[SayOw]

Originally Posted by rich76

...it sickens me no end.

Interesting sentiment from the prominent individual that led these very forums to become what they are today...whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide.

The person that is offended the quickest and easiest about almost anything, the most close minded person in these forums and the person that is the quickest to call someone a jacka$$ or other name, as well as calling for banning or moderation, is now wondering why no one will respond with an intelligent, well thought post...beats me why no one has stepped forward yet...

[SiteWolf]

Originally Posted by SayOw

Interesting sentiment from the prominent individual that led these very forums to become what they are today...whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide.

The person that is offended the quickest and easiest about almost anything, the most close minded person in these forums and the person that is the quickest to call someone a jacka$$ or other name, as well as calling for banning or moderation, is now wondering why no one will respond with an intelligent, well thought post...beats me why no one has stepped forward yet...

And you're entitled to your opinion. I can't claim to know what really went on in here, who should bear blame, and how we got here. I can say, however, that politics is always volatile so who is a 'jacka$$' is also dependent partly on who you ask and what THEIR political leanings are. You have your opinions on Rich, I have mine (tho yes, based NOT on what happened here since I wasn't here). Given personal situations Rich is enduring with deaths in his family, I'm also uncomfortable seeing this here now, but it is what it is.

I am mostly to blame because I didn't keep close enough tabs on what was going on and, therefore, didn't attempt to curb it. Even when I knew there were problems, I wasn't aware of how large they were. Again, my fault.

None of that matters now. People feel how they feel. I can't repair broken relationships. I can't make Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, etc get along.....and I certainly can't go back in time to prevent what's already happened.

BUT....Rich's suggestions are still viable. For this forum to remain, there does have to be some understandings. I thought there already were, but I don't have time to moderate to make sure they are any more than spoc had the time to moderate before.

We can only move forward from here, and doing so from a negative standpoint is NOT the way to do it. I'm not suggesting I think the slate can be actually wiped clean. I can, however, request people wipe it as clean as possible, try to forget what happened here prior to today, and move forward as civilly and respectful as possible.

[tymy]

There were/are many who share in the blame for what has transpired here, myself included. To say Rich was the "prominent" cause is simply not true. I will not give specific examples because that would do nothing more than to continue to stir the pot.

[StockTrader]

Originally Posted by tymy

There were/are many who share in the blame for what has transpired here, myself included. To say Rich was the "prominent" cause is simply not true. I will not give specific examples because that would do nothing more than to continue to stir the pot.

I too am to blame.

Nick

[rich76]

Originally Posted by SayOw

Interesting sentiment from the prominent individual that led these very forums to become what they are today...whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide.

The person that is offended the quickest and easiest about almost anything, the most close minded person in these forums and the person that is the quickest to call someone a jacka$$ or other name, as well as calling for banning or moderation, is now wondering why no one will respond with an intelligent, well thought post...beats me why no one has stepped forward yet...

a GROSS exageration on ALL points....but thank you anyway.